Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

[Moore77]

You can find hundred ways to justify what happened there and it doesn't change a thing that, Bottas and Rosberg were lapdogs for a great driver, except Rosberg was lucky to scrap a championship as the other cars were were miles behind. I still remember Malaysia 2013, when Brawn issued team orders in favor of Hamilton. It was always clear as who was No. 1 and who is No. 2.

Do you know how an f1 team works?

Please go on, I am happy to listen and know. But before that, please clear me your qualification in F1.

[Wass85]

The thing is Rosberg was that close to Hamilton in all parameters that Mercedes would have had to actively sabotage him to make him a Barrichello or Irvine.

Those two were nowhere near Schumacher over the course of a season, it made sense to make them clear number two drivers.

Does anyone honestly think if they were just as good Ferrari sabotage them to support Schumacher?

That is why I said, if they wanted Hamilton a Number 1 they would have let Rosberg go and brought in Nick Heidfeld. But, that is not the case at Mercedes, the drivers are given equal status. Bottas is allowed to take wins from Hamilton - Monza 2019 Hamilton was asked to let Bottas by to challenge Lecerc.

Credence should not be given to the ridiculous theory that Hamilton had contractual number 2 teammates because that was clearly not the case. That is a negative mark on Michael's legacy and it is what it is, no shame in it.

Yes and kudos to him but we don't know what goes off behind closed doors, how do we even know that Schumacher specifically asked for this?

Do you seriously believe he saw Barrichello and Irvine that much of a threat?

He clearly didn't have that in his contract when he joined Mercedes.

[Moore77]

You can find hundred ways to justify what happened there and it doesn't change a thing that,

Context is important, is it not? For instance, I remember watching Irvine beating Schumacher in Monaco, 1998. It was then that I knew Schumacher was the number 2 in the Ferrari team. It was always clear. Same with Barrichello in Spain, in 2000. Just more confirmation of Schumacher's lapdog status. Sure, Schumacher managed to scrape a few lucky World Driver Championship wins when at Ferrari, but...

Bottas and Rosberg were lapdogs for a great driver, except Rosberg was lucky to scrap a championship as the other cars were were miles behind.

I don't recall 'number 2 drivers' being allowed to win championships? It rather defeats the point of having a number 2 if they are allowed to win the season over the number 1, does it not?

I still remember Malaysia 2013, when Brawn issued team orders in favor of Hamilton. It was always clear as who was No. 1 and who is No. 2.

To be clear, one race that was their best chance of a good result at that time, not only trumps the two wins later in that season that Rosberg had, but also the WDCs that went down to the wire, the clear bad blood between Rosberg and Hamilton (why be angry at someone you can just order moved out of the way?), and the WDC that Rosberg won?

Or, by 'Number 2' do we actually mean 'worse driver than'? In which case, I've got awful news for people about all of Hamilton's team mates (real or potential)...

While I respect everything you said there, hear me out. Any driver, kept there to benefit his his team mate like in Malaysia 2013, Monaco 2016 and Russia 2018, is a No. 2. Whether you officially call it or not, is of little consequence. You can twist it, whichever you way to prove it otherwise, isn't going to be any importance. If Barrichello and Irvine were No.2 and benefited Schumacher, which they did, so are Kovalainen, Bottas and Rosberg. You can slice that cake in any different shapes and sizes and garnish with all kinds of explanations it at your will, but it is made of the same exact ingredients which you are not ready to accept.

The ONLY reason a Rosberg or a Bottas gets a chance to put a show with Hamilton, is because that machinery was/is way ahead of the competition to such an unprecedented safe extent that none from outside of a Mercedes car, can even have a chance. Whenever the competition comes closer, like in 2017 and a bit of 2018, the No. 2 driver was/is used to protect the No.1 and ward off the competition. Please don't tell me it any other ways. Ferrari did that more openly and honestly as they probably never felt an urge to put an act.

[Edit] Just because someone down vote my views, doesn't stop me from expressing them. You can try a million times down voting, but that doesn't discourage me. Go on if it can help you.

[holeindalip]

You can find hundred ways to justify what happened there and it doesn't change a thing that,

Context is important, is it not? For instance, I remember watching Irvine beating Schumacher in Monaco, 1998. It was then that I knew Schumacher was the number 2 in the Ferrari team. It was always clear. Same with Barrichello in Spain, in 2000. Just more confirmation of Schumacher's lapdog status. Sure, Schumacher managed to scrape a few lucky World Driver Championship wins when at Ferrari, but...

Bottas and Rosberg were lapdogs for a great driver, except Rosberg was lucky to scrap a championship as the other cars were were miles behind.

I don't recall 'number 2 drivers' being allowed to win championships? It rather defeats the point of having a number 2 if they are allowed to win the season over the number 1, does it not?

I still remember Malaysia 2013, when Brawn issued team orders in favor of Hamilton. It was always clear as who was No. 1 and who is No. 2.

To be clear, one race that was their best chance of a good result at that time, not only trumps the two wins later in that season that Rosberg had, but also the WDCs that went down to the wire, the clear bad blood between Rosberg and Hamilton (why be angry at someone you can just order moved out of the way?), and the WDC that Rosberg won?

Or, by 'Number 2' do we actually mean 'worse driver than'? In which case, I've got awful news for people about all of Hamilton's team mates (real or potential)...

While I respect everything you said there, hear me out. Any driver, kept there to benefit his his team mate like in Malaysia 2013, Monaco 2016 and Russia 2018, is a No. 2. Whether you officially call it or not, is of little consequence. You can twist it, whichever you way to prove it otherwise, isn't going to be any importance. If Barrichello and Irvine were No.2 and benefited Schumacher, which they did, so are Kovalainen, Bottas and Rosberg. You can slice that cake in any different shapes and sizes and garnish with all kinds of explanations it at your will, but it is made of the same exact ingredients which you are not ready to accept.

The ONLY reason a Rosberg or a Bottas gets a chance to put a show with Hamilton, is because that machinery was/is way ahead of the competition to such an unprecedented safe extent that none from outside of a Mercedes car, can even have a chance. Whenever the competition comes closer, like in 2017 and a bit of 2018, the No. 2 driver was/is used to protect the No.1 and ward off the competition. Please don't tell me it any other ways. Ferrari did that more openly and honestly as they probably never felt an urge to put an act.

If the Mercedes is so superior why did Bottas finish 4th and 5th in the drivers standings in 2017 2018?

[Moore77]

Context is important, is it not? For instance, I remember watching Irvine beating Schumacher in Monaco, 1998. It was then that I knew Schumacher was the number 2 in the Ferrari team. It was always clear. Same with Barrichello in Spain, in 2000. Just more confirmation of Schumacher's lapdog status. Sure, Schumacher managed to scrape a few lucky World Driver Championship wins when at Ferrari, but...
I don't recall 'number 2 drivers' being allowed to win championships? It rather defeats the point of having a number 2 if they are allowed to win the season over the number 1, does it not?

To be clear, one race that was their best chance of a good result at that time, not only trumps the two wins later in that season that Rosberg had, but also the WDCs that went down to the wire, the clear bad blood between Rosberg and Hamilton (why be angry at someone you can just order moved out of the way?), and the WDC that Rosberg won?

Or, by 'Number 2' do we actually mean 'worse driver than'? In which case, I've got awful news for people about all of Hamilton's team mates (real or potential)...

While I respect everything you said there, hear me out. Any driver, kept there to benefit his his team mate like in Malaysia 2013, Monaco 2016 and Russia 2018, is a No. 2. Whether you officially call it or not, is of little consequence. You can twist it, whichever you way to prove it otherwise, isn't going to be any importance. If Barrichello and Irvine were No.2 and benefited Schumacher, which they did, so are Kovalainen, Bottas and Rosberg. You can slice that cake in any different shapes and sizes and garnish with all kinds of explanations it at your will, but it is made of the same exact ingredients which you are not ready to accept.

The ONLY reason a Rosberg or a Bottas gets a chance to put a show with Hamilton, is because that machinery was/is way ahead of the competition to such an unprecedented safe extent that none from outside of a Mercedes car, can even have a chance. Whenever the competition comes closer, like in 2017 and a bit of 2018, the No. 2 driver was/is used to protect the No.1 and ward off the competition. Please don't tell me it any other ways. Ferrari did that more openly and honestly as they probably never felt an urge to put an act.

If the Mercedes is so superior why did Bottas finish 4th and 5th in the drivers standings in 2017 2018?

Please read my post once more.

[Just_a_fan]

While I respect everything you said there, hear me out. Any driver, kept there to benefit his his team mate like in Malaysia 2013, Monaco 2016 and Russia 2018, is a No. 2. Whether you officially call it or not, is of little consequence. You can twist it, whichever you way to prove it otherwise, isn't going to be any importance. If Barrichello and Irvine were No.2 and benefited Schumacher, which they did, so are Kovalainen, Bottas and Rosberg. You can slice that cake in any different shapes and sizes and garnish with all kinds of explanations it at your will, but it is made of the same exact ingredients which you are not ready to accept.

The ONLY reason a Rosberg or a Bottas gets a chance to put a show with Hamilton, is because that machinery was/is way ahead of the competition to such an unprecedented safe extent that none from outside of a Mercedes car, can even have a chance. Whenever the competition comes closer, like in 2017 and a bit of 2018, the No. 2 driver was/is used to protect the No.1 and ward off the competition. Please don't tell me it any other ways. Ferrari did that more openly and honestly as they probably never felt an urge to put an act.

If the Mercedes is so superior why did Bottas finish 4th and 5th in the drivers standings in 2017 2018?

Please read my post once more.

The reason Hamilton does better than Bottas etc is because he is better than them. There is no number one status as Schumacher had. Schumacher had contractual number one status as Rubens et al have confirmed more than once.

You can make up all the stories you like to try to denigrate Hamilton, but the reality is that he has had to beat every team mate he has ever had on merit. There has never been a contractual/team preference in his favour.

[Moore77]

If the Mercedes is so superior why did Bottas finish 4th and 5th in the drivers standings in 2017 2018?

Please read my post once more.

The reason Hamilton does better than Bottas etc is because he is better than them. There is no number one status as Schumacher had. Schumacher had contractual number one status as Rubens et al have confirmed more than once.

You can make up all the stories you like to try to denigrate Hamilton, but the reality is that he has had to beat every team mate he has ever had on merit. There has never been a contractual/team preference in his favour.

Why would you need a contractual No.2, if the purpose is anyway served by the team as necessary? There is a certain reason why Bottas is continuing on a yearly basis.

[holeindalip]

Please read my post once more.

The reason Hamilton does better than Bottas etc is because he is better than them. There is no number one status as Schumacher had. Schumacher had contractual number one status as Rubens et al have confirmed more than once.

You can make up all the stories you like to try to denigrate Hamilton, but the reality is that he has had to beat every team mate he has ever had on merit. There has never been a contractual/team preference in his favour.

Why would you need a contractual No.2, if the purpose is anyway served by the team as necessary? There is a certain reason why Bottas is continuing on a yearly basis.

I think Mercedes really wanted Russell in next years car but Williams would not let him out of his contract

[Moore77]

The reason Hamilton does better than Bottas etc is because he is better than them. There is no number one status as Schumacher had. Schumacher had contractual number one status as Rubens et al have confirmed more than once.

You can make up all the stories you like to try to denigrate Hamilton, but the reality is that he has had to beat every team mate he has ever had on merit. There has never been a contractual/team preference in his favour.

Why would you need a contractual No.2, if the purpose is anyway served by the team as necessary? There is a certain reason why Bottas is continuing on a yearly basis.

I think Mercedes really wanted Russell in next years car but Williams would not let him out of his contract

It's a good theory. Back in 2016, they released Bottas and as Claire Williams claimed, Williams never stopped their drivers a top team offer came by!

https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/c ... t-20200309

"He has a long-term contract with us and I would expect to see him in a Williams car until that contract expires. But Mercedes is Mercedes, and I never want to stand in the way of giving a driver a great opportunity, if our team is not in a competitive position."

[holeindalip]

Why would you need a contractual No.2, if the purpose is anyway served by the team as necessary? There is a certain reason why Bottas is continuing on a yearly basis.

I think Mercedes really wanted Russell in next years car but Williams would not let him out of his contract

It's a good theory. Back in 2016, they released Bottas and as Claire Williams claimed, Williams never stopped their drivers a top team offer came by!

Do you even watch any f1 news?

[Moore77]

I think Mercedes really wanted Russell in next years car but Williams would not let him out of his contract

It's a good theory. Back in 2016, they released Bottas and as Claire Williams claimed, Williams never stopped their drivers a top team offer came by!

Do you even watch any f1 news?

Let me post once again, as you jumped the post there.
https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/c ... t-20200309

Williams, de facto team principal for the British outfit, told the PA news agency: "George has a very clear ambition. He wants to be a F1 world champion, and I firmly believe he will. George is such an instrumental part of this team, and I want to give him a car so he doesn't look elsewhere.

"He has a long-term contract with us and I would expect to see him in a Williams car until that contract expires. But Mercedes is Mercedes, and I never want to stand in the way of giving a driver a great opportunity, if our team is not in a competitive position."

What is wrong with most of you Hamilton folks that you somehow think you can raise the tone while posting content here? It's not that others can't get as obnoxious as you are. It's just that most of us prefer to be civil.

[holeindalip]

It's a good theory. Back in 2016, they released Bottas and as Claire Williams claimed, Williams never stopped their drivers a top team offer came by!

Do you even watch any f1 news?

Let me post once again, as you jumped the post there.
https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/c ... t-20200309

Williams, de facto team principal for the British outfit, told the PA news agency: "George has a very clear ambition. He wants to be a F1 world champion, and I firmly believe he will. George is such an instrumental part of this team, and I want to give him a car so he doesn't look elsewhere.

"He has a long-term contract with us and I would expect to see him in a Williams car until that contract expires. But Mercedes is Mercedes, and I never want to stand in the way of giving a driver a great opportunity, if our team is not in a competitive position."

What is wrong with most of you Hamilton folks that you somehow think you can raise the tone while posting content here? It's not that others can't get as obnoxious as you are. It's just that most of us prefer to be civil.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/williams ... edes-stay/

Stay up to date at least....

[Moore77]

Do you even watch any f1 news?

Let me post once again, as you jumped the post there.
https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/c ... t-20200309

Williams, de facto team principal for the British outfit, told the PA news agency: "George has a very clear ambition. He wants to be a F1 world champion, and I firmly believe he will. George is such an instrumental part of this team, and I want to give him a car so he doesn't look elsewhere.

"He has a long-term contract with us and I would expect to see him in a Williams car until that contract expires. But Mercedes is Mercedes, and I never want to stand in the way of giving a driver a great opportunity, if our team is not in a competitive position."

What is wrong with most of you Hamilton folks that you somehow think you can raise the tone while posting content here? It's not that others can't get as obnoxious as you are. It's just that most of us prefer to be civil.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/williams ... edes-stay/

Stay up to date at least....

It depends on which side you want to believe. There was never a report of Mercedes even seriously considering putting Russell in that seat. Even before Russell came in picture, Bottas was being renewed annually and that hasn't changed. Russell is another story thrown in the mix.

[holeindalip]

It's a good theory. Back in 2016, they released Bottas and as Claire Williams claimed, Williams never stopped their drivers a top team offer came by!

Do you even watch any f1 news?

Let me post once again, as you jumped the post there.
https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/c ... t-20200309

Williams, de facto team principal for the British outfit, told the PA news agency: "George has a very clear ambition. He wants to be a F1 world champion, and I firmly believe he will. George is such an instrumental part of this team, and I want to give him a car so he doesn't look elsewhere.

"He has a long-term contract with us and I would expect to see him in a Williams car until that contract expires. But Mercedes is Mercedes, and I never want to stand in the way of giving a driver a great opportunity, if our team is not in a competitive position."

What is wrong with most of you Hamilton folks that you somehow think you can raise the tone while posting content here? It's not that others can't get as obnoxious as you are. It's just that most of us prefer to be civil.

I wasn’t trying to raise the tone with anyone this guy just refutes any info thrown at him...

[Moore77]

Do you even watch any f1 news?

Let me post once again, as you jumped the post there.
https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/c ... t-20200309

Williams, de facto team principal for the British outfit, told the PA news agency: "George has a very clear ambition. He wants to be a F1 world champion, and I firmly believe he will. George is such an instrumental part of this team, and I want to give him a car so he doesn't look elsewhere.

"He has a long-term contract with us and I would expect to see him in a Williams car until that contract expires. But Mercedes is Mercedes, and I never want to stand in the way of giving a driver a great opportunity, if our team is not in a competitive position."

What is wrong with most of you Hamilton folks that you somehow think you can raise the tone while posting content here? It's not that others can't get as obnoxious as you are. It's just that most of us prefer to be civil.

I wasn’t trying to raise the tone with anyone this guy just refutes any info thrown at him...

Free society. I have never seen anyone agreeing with anyone here, unless they stand on one side. For as long as there are reasons for refuting any info, people need to understand there can be a debate. If one gets frustrated and behaves rude, just because their version is not being accepted, then that is uncivilized.

If Mercedes needed a more competitive, No.1 capable driver, they could have signed Ricciardo when he had advanced level of talks with them. There was no one holding him up and then he went to Renault. That means something.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... rari-snubs