German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

[zenithbeach]

this was a black sunday for f1 in my books.

1. if you must issue a team order, at least be decent enough to use some sort of code. even a 10 year old understood that.
2. if youre not good enough of a driver to beat your own team mate by your own efforts then you do not deserve the championship.
3. whining like a girl instead of puttin that energy into overtaking just shows a lack of maturity and again.. does not make for a great championship winner!

arghhh this really has pissed me off and all the people ive watched this with. its bullshittin the viewers. i feel really sorry for the people who bought a ticket to see some racing! not somebody to take their foot off the accelerator.

i felt really sorry for massa there. after suckin so much this season.. after his surgery and everything.. he was the deserving winner of this race. its a bloody atrocity to tell him to let the whiny one past.

if i were massa, i wouldve held my hand out of the car and waved alonso past.
respect to massa for being so "professional". its probably not how you win championships though.

[ringo]

and here we go...
Alonso probably just said he was faster and to let him past...
the TEAM decided what to do... they DIDN'T HAVE TO listen to what
alonso said... They could have made it difficult for him and told
him to race it out with Felipe! But we all know that those situations
often don't end up well!
and when Felipe slowed down,what was he suppoused to do? Slow down
with him and let Vettel steam ahead? I don't think so...

Alonso clean as whistle all the time, like Singapore 2008, Spygate

they don't call him teflonso for nothing...

[WhiteBlue]

I'm in general of the opinion that teams should have the right to order their drivers. They always had that until the FiA changed the rule for 2003.

Pilbeam and Webber demonstrated that you just have to make your position obvious to deny a team the chance to issue team order. So Horner had to row back in Turkey officially or he had risked punishment.

Massa and Smedley have obviously payed attention to that tactic. I really wonder what Massa will say to the stewards.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I wonder if Alonso threatened anyone in the team much like he blackmailed Dennis in 2007. Definitely a possibility. Or the existence of Santander top brass -as some other member pointed out- could've solved that.

Ferrari knew exactly what they were getting with Alonso. And would Ferrari rather Kimi in the seat with NO Santander money? Obviously not.

If Alonso has somthing in his contract stipulating this, then Ferrari obviously agreed to it. Otherwise they wouldnt have signed him up.

So again, the problem lays with the team. It could easily be resolved if Ferrari enforced an equal driver policy....

[Miguel]

I'll only add that the German GP isn't the first time we've had clear team orders since 2002. Off the top of my head, Ferrari used them in Brazil 2007 (Kimi WDC) and China 2008 (for Massa, didn't work out). McLaren used them at least in Hungary 2005 (Montoya letting Kimi by), Germany 2008 (Kovalainen letting Hamilton by) and Turkey 2010 ("Jenson, save fuel"). We've seen the Red Bull incidents, as well. Tell me how this is different from taking off the front wing from one car to put it into the other. None of these incidents were awarded a penalty.

By the way, those that complain that this results hasn't allowed them to see a battle for the win, shouldn't be too unhappy because it allowed them to see a battle for second and it certainly helps a 5-way title race.

[WhiteBlue]

i felt really sorry for massa there. after suckin so much this season.. after his surgery and everything.. he was the deserving winner of this race. its a bloody atrocity to tell him to let the whiny one past.

if i were massa, i wouldve held my hand out of the car and waved alonso past.

+1

Massa did great whatever the outcome of this. Alonso with his "This is ridiculous" call once more confirmed that he will not stop at anything (what really happened in Singapore 2008?) to win races. He pushed Ferrari into team orders. If they get punished I hope that Massa will not suffer for it. If they dock Alonso and Ferrari for screwing up I would not mind.

[manchild]

Guess who is the only driver to support what Ferrari did?

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 72526.html

[gcdugas]

F1's concern is less about Massa and more about the bringing of the sport into disrepute. Something to think about.

Bicycle racing doesn't suffer disrepute from team tactics. Doping and drugs yes but not from team tactics. The public isn't dumb. They know that a team works as a team. Say the second car is getting blue flags to let the leader lap through... he can take a few extra corners to do it and then he can move over immediately when his teammate laps him. The gain can be several seconds and affect the results. Team tactics.

I think the rule is stupid and unenforceable. It only rewards those shrewd enough to mask it. "Save fuel" messages, a "jammed wheel nut" or some other reason for a slow stop... there are several ways to mask results manipulation. It is best that everything be out in the open like it is in bicycle racing.

And what about customer teams... say a Toro Rosso delays Hamilton for a lap of blue flags to allow Fernando to close in on Lewis... say STR even gets penalized... all Ferrari has to do is let them have a free engine or something and it is worth it for STR to be "buddies" on the track.

[jddh1]

FIA should once and forever stop the BS with banning team orders (yes,I'm saying it again). It's a team sport. If I tell my winger to fall back a little bit to cover the opposing winger, I expect him to do so. If he goes on wondering up front I take him out of the game. So stop making this a bigger deal than what it is. If Massa and Alonso were in different teams and Massa let Alonso by then yeah, we'd have a problem. But this way, it's nothing. Stop hating.

[WhiteBlue]

Why should he change his POV? If he did that everybody would call him a hypocrite. Teams historically had the right to issue team order until the rules were changed for 2003. Even if the rules are against you you can still be of the opinion that they are wrong.

[Ganxxta]

If they get punished I hope that Massa will not suffer for it. If they dock Alonso and Ferrari for screwing up I would not mind.

Agree with that, would be the only reasonable punishment.

[Shrieker]

I wonder if Alonso threatened anyone in the team much like he blackmailed Dennis in 2007. Definitely a possibility. Or the existence of Santander top brass -as some other member pointed out- could've solved that.

Ferrari knew exactly what they were getting with Alonso. And would Ferrari rather Kimi in the seat with NO Santander money? Obviously not.

If Alonso has somthing in his contract stipulating this, then Ferrari obviously agreed to it. Otherwise they wouldnt have signed him up.

So again, the problem lays with the team. It could easily be resolved if Ferrari enforced an equal driver policy....

If I recall correctly, this is not the first time this season Alonso was complaining to the team that he was faster than Massa and that he should be allowed to get past. His previous requests didn't receive the same ammount of collaboration from the team as much as this instance. I take it because Massa's hand is a lot weaker now than it was at the start of the season -now that there is a considerable points gap between him and Alonso. Massa's political influence within the team has prevented them from favoring Alonso over him - until now.

But then again, there was the China pit entry incident which puts paid to all of the above.

[jddh1]

alonso has more points, thus he's closer to the WDC. So it makes sense to have him pass massa. The difference is 7 points. That's a lot.

[Raftaar]

+1

Massa did great whatever the outcome of this. Alonso with his "This is ridiculous" call once more confirmed that he will not stop at anything (what really happened in Singapore 2008?) to win races. He pushed Ferrari into team orders. If they get punished I hope that Massa will not suffer for it. If they dock Alonso and Ferrari for screwing up I would not mind.

Hello everyone !

I disagree with you there WhiteBlue! The "This is ridiculous" comment came earlier when Massa suddenly locked his tyres and slid sideways just in front of Alonso.
This comment was meant to say - 'What is this! He will get us both out of the race!'

I personally feel Alonso had nothing to do with this, as far as the actual decision making is concerned, no way did he force the team to do so.

This was solely a decision by the team, sure they would have informed Alonso of this by radio, but I am sure, if left to himself, he would rather liked to have won the race with a fight.
I am sure all forum members saw the post race footage; There was minimal celebration, Alonso knew the gravity of the situation and acted wisely.

[marcush.]

I bet this is the line of argumentation here: you can´t punish alonso for what happened...so what can FIA do : punish Ferrari,moneywise.and put them on probation ,punish Massa thats about it .