Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

[foxmulder_ms]

WOOOOW! This is HUGE! Cannot believe they penalized for this. What about all the other incidents... I can remember like 500 of them and they were IN the race not even qualifying.

I really think, this is not fair.

[stefan_]

Is Narain racing tomorrow?

[myurr]

It's a dangerous precident they've set. Any future failure to return to Parc Furme will surely require the same level of punishment, be it qualifying or race.

I don't think so. macca LIED about the reason why they didn't return to parc ferme. that was the real problem.

If lying to the media is an offence then Red Bull would have been thrown out of the last couple of years championships. They didn't lie to the stewards, they said they had honestly made as mistake in fuelling it.

[Nando]

Only first one works.

If you can get back to pits you haven´t underfueled the car.

You can underfuel by 1 litre. As that would have given Lewis enough fuel to return to the pits, that is what he's been accused of gaining an advantage from.

But the problem was he never ran out of fuel.

And he did have enough fuel for the FIA.

He got disqualified for not returning to the pits.

[gibells]

It's a dangerous precident they've set. Any future failure to return to Parc Furme will surely require the same level of punishment, be it qualifying or race.

I don't think so. macca LIED about the reason why they didn't return to parc ferme. that was the real problem.

Not when they quote chapter and verse for the reason he was disqualified, i.e. article 6.6.2

[FakeAlonso]

So conclusion... There's at least 3 ways around this rule:
1) Underfuel, do your lap, dump it in the gravel.
2) Underfuel, do your lap, come back in, put plenty of fuel in the car for a second run, go out, do another lap, return to parc-ferme.
3) Underfuel, do your lap, come back in, decide not to go out on track again.

nail on the head

no, if Lewis crashed he wouldn't be on pole. Tbey would hae to work on car under Parc Ferme conditions.

not crash, just "run wide" and get stuck

Exactly. Just run wide.

[myurr]

Only first one works.

If you can get back to pits you haven´t underfueled the car.

You can underfuel by 1 litre. As that would have given Lewis enough fuel to return to the pits, that is what he's been accused of gaining an advantage from.

But the problem was he never ran out of fuel.

And he did have enough fuel for the FIA.

He got disqualified for not returning to the pits.

But the hypothetical situation we've postulated is deliberately doing a run without enough fuel for the sample, putting more fuel in and then doing another aborted run with enough fuel. Thus getting around the rules.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Only first one works.

If you can get back to pits you haven´t underfueled the car.

You can underfuel by 1 litre by doing 2 or 3 (you don't have to provide the sample to the FIA because you return to your garage, not to parc ferme).

No this is wrong.

6.6.2 Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event.
Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), if a sample of fuel is required after a practice session the car concerned must have first been driven back to the pits under its own power.

[beelsebob]

Only first one works.

If you can get back to pits you haven´t underfueled the car.

You can underfuel by 1 litre. As that would have given Lewis enough fuel to return to the pits, that is what he's been accused of gaining an advantage from.

But the problem was he never ran out of fuel.

And he did have enough fuel for the FIA.

He got disqualified for not returning to the pits.

Yep – once again – I don't think anyone is disputing that Hamilton broke the rules and should be penalised, only that the rule seems to be unenforceable in a number of circumstances, and hence rather a mad rule to have.

[astracrazy]

It's a dangerous precident they've set. Any future failure to return to Parc Furme will surely require the same level of punishment, be it qualifying or race.

I don't think so. macca LIED about the reason why they didn't return to parc ferme. that was the real problem.

If lying to the media is an offence then Red Bull would have been thrown out of the last couple of years championships. They didn't lie to the stewards, they said they had honestly made as mistake in fuelling it.

they never lied, they only said they had a technical issue....

[Phillyred]

Lewis just can't catch a break this season.. HIS car has been fantastic. Heads will surely roll if not rolling right now..
I imagine he will start on the harder compound now and cruise up the field the first 10+ laps and hope to be in the top 10 by lap 20. I wonder though if it will be a two stop or one stop strategy.. I get nervous when it comes to Hamilton's tire management skills. As we've seen this year it's all about tire strategy vs relative pace.

[astracrazy]

Only first one works.

If you can get back to pits you haven´t underfueled the car.

You can underfuel by 1 litre by doing 2 or 3 (you don't have to provide the sample to the FIA because you return to your garage, not to parc ferme).

No this is wrong.

6.6.2 Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event.
Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), if a sample of fuel is required after a practice session the car concerned must have first been driven back to the pits under its own power.

but that's ok, just miss the scrutineering/weight bridge like torro rosso did last race

[beelsebob]

Only first one works.

If you can get back to pits you haven´t underfueled the car.

You can underfuel by 1 litre by doing 2 or 3 (you don't have to provide the sample to the FIA because you return to your garage, not to parc ferme).

No this is wrong.

6.6.2 Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event.
Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), if a sample of fuel is required after a practice session the car concerned must have first been driven back to the pits under its own power.

Sure, but the practice of it is that the FIA don't take fuel samples between runs in Q3 because there simply isn't time to do so, as a result, you get a chance to get back to the pits, put some more fuel in, and mask the fact that you were ever low on fuel. Again – the argument is that the rule is not enforcable, not that it's not illegal.

[Nando]

Australia: Slow stop costs Hamilton 2nd place to Vettel.
Malaysia: Slow stops cost him a potential victory.
China: Slow stop costs Button a potential victory.
Bahrain: Pit crew still failing.
Spain: Threw away pole position by over half a second.

[myurr]

Only first one works.

If you can get back to pits you haven´t underfueled the car.

You can underfuel by 1 litre by doing 2 or 3 (you don't have to provide the sample to the FIA because you return to your garage, not to parc ferme).

No this is wrong.

6.6.2 Competitors must ensure that a one litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Event.
Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the stewards of the meeting), if a sample of fuel is required after a practice session the car concerned must have first been driven back to the pits under its own power.

And how often do they provide that sample. The point is that unless they're actively taking fuel samples throughout Q3 then they wouldn't be detected.