Mercedes GP W02

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So Mercedes can degrade their engine further and risk having less horsepower than it should?

Or the works team running out of good engines before its own customers?

I think not!

+1 PhillipM

[bjpower]

also arent all the ecu boxes made by a maclaren company?

I'm not saying they are cheating or anything but i am sure someone would notice that merc have a very different setup to mclaren and force india.

they may all be programmed in house with settings for each team but i am sure their is some form of tech support etc.

also maclaren are not exactly noobs when it comes to engines. im sure they know exactly how far to push they have had these engines for years as the merc works team

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush,

What I got from the excerpt, is that Mercedes tolerances have tightened up to the point where man is the flaw, and not the process or the machines.

Leading to an even bigger case of there being very slight differences in engines from the same factory.
And as Mclaren have their own staff working closely with Mercedes HPE, they would know if there was a concerted effort by Mercedes to get the best engines.

Its just hocus pocus.

[marcush.]

I´m not saying they are holding back Mclaren .I say Mercedes could edge closer to the limits with their own engines in their own team!They have more control .No ways Mclren can detect how much longer Mercedes is running their engines closer to the limits.
We don´t know if those engines would exceed those 4 percent powerloss over lifetime or if Mercedes is only experiencing those 4% with more severely punished engines.

As for the ECU mapping I said before:with different airbox and exhaust configuration different cooling capabilities and different power losses in the drivetrain the mappings should differ as well .Would you let your competitors and clients look up the "works" data when JT in this forum is not even prepared to write the word tyre without having fear of giving away too much ? paranoia is a fact in motorsports.(No offense there JT.. but I don´t think anyone here was capable of doing harm to your campaign in Nascar ,that ´s my point ,but great to see you having success over there!)

[marcush.]

Marcush,

What I got from the excerpt, is that Mercedes tolerances have tightened up to the point where man is the flaw, and not the process or the machines.

Leading to an even bigger case of there being very slight differences in engines from the same factory.
And as Mclaren have their own staff working closely with Mercedes HPE, they would know if there was a concerted effort by Mercedes to get the best engines.

Its just hocus pocus.

JET,this is just NORMAL for an automotive business .You need to proof you can produce 1 million parts or assemblies one just like the other with constant quality and performance.
There is no mention of this performance being the max of what is possible.You just define the safe limits of the component.It is well possible that you can by juggling with tolerances or methods make gains in performance -not all things are set in stone with the engines -for example the pumps and alternator are free as well as the complete inlet and exhaust system...
It´s speculative no question but to believe there is no difference at all is naive.

[PhillipM]

And to believe that Mercedes have 30bhp more that McLaren haven't cottoned onto is also pretty naive, given the history of Mclaren/Mercedes...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

3-5 hp at the absolute maximum. even then thats covering best to worst in a season.

30hp is a downright joke.

[marcush.]

maybe someday someone speaks out...

if it´s 5 or 30 or 50 and how much is really reaching the rear wheels then...too many variables in this equation to pinpoint which is what.

[beelsebob]

Just to put the 30hp speculation in perspective... By the time you're up in the ~750hp range, reasonable estimates are that 6hp gives about 0.1 seconds per lap at an average circuit. So that would mean ~0.5 seconds disadvantage to Force India and McLaren. Are you seriously saying that McLaren's car is 2.5 seconds a lap faster (with engines equalised) than Merc's and Force India's is 0.2 seconds a lap faster than the works team's*?

* Numbers based of recent qualifying times.

[MIKEY_!]

30hp... no chance. The use of old engines could make as much difference as the realistic differences in detuning. I think running different engine maps would make a bigger difference.

Also mclaren would rage.

[xpensive]

...
You're still arguing this nonsense? How many engines have you built and dyno'd? I have done quite a few and can tell you the above is false. Moving on. Please

Hundreds pilot, many hundreds, when I belong to those who believe that you should not be allowed to voice an opinion on anything on this forum without hands-on xperience of the subject. Just like JT, such a shame he's American and is thus unable to share.

I wonder why is it that certain members of F1T does't seem to have any problems with suspecting Ferrari for supplying different engines to different teams, but not in the case of Mercedes HPE?

[raymondu999]

I think part of that would be because 2008 Monza (in my memory) is the only non-Ferrari Ferrari-powered victory.

Also, Ferrari is a winning team while MGP is not (yet). MGP supplying good engines to McL/FIndia doesn't matter much in that they wouldn't really miss out on victories. Giving Ferrari engines to competitors would be worse off for Ferrari as they might compete with Ferrari for the win.

Having said that, McLaren is powering teams which have faster chassises than Ferrari-powered teams, so I could be talking rubbish on my 2nd paragraph

[MIKEY_!]

Makes sense to keep the best for yourself.

[Hemsy]

Guys can we move on from engine conspiracy theories and actually discuss car development?! I personally think that Merc will make a significant step forward in this race. The reason being that when Bob Bell joined the team, most of his efforts would have gone into solving the car's fundamental issues like cooling, tires overheating etc. It was no coincidence that they introduced the new exhausts just a few races after he joined the team. Now that they've solved some of the fundamental issues plaguing the car (not all), maybe he would have focused his efforts on an upgrade package. All teams have major upgrades for Spa, partly track specific and others more permanent. So is there any info on what Merc have coming for this race?

[MIKEY_!]

So why were they using those exhausts anyway?