Red Bull exceed fuel flow limit, Ricciardo DSQ at Australian GP

[turbof1]

I've readed on multiple occasions that they are calibrated (not the same as the correction factor).

Scarbs has the following to say:

To enforce the regulation, the FIA uses an ultrasonic sensor that gauges the mass of fuel passing through to the engine and feeds this back to the FIA and the team. The sensor is contactless to ensure that it does not restrict fuel flow.

Since it's contactless and works with ultrasonic waves, and different materials could be used around where the fuel passes, I think calibration is definitely needed. It's just like most touch devices: it has to be calibrated for a correct measurement.

[ChrisM40]

Do we know when the appeal is going to be held yet? I don't want this dragging on for a few more races with RB still disputing the rules.

[bauc]

Do we know when the appeal is going to be held yet? I don't want this dragging on for a few more races with RB still disputing the rules.

I think I've heard on SkySports that it might take till the end of April for the hearing of the appeal

[Pup]

Gill Sensors responds...

Following the Australian Grand Prix last weekend, the FIA have provided Gill Sensors with positive feedback on the performance of the Fuel Flow Meter, confirming their confidence in the development and stating the meters meet the FIA’s accuracy specification.

The meter development included an extensive testing programme, which involved liaising with many of the F1 teams for their valuable feedback on meter design and functionality. Meter calibration is handled by the FIA’s third party calibration company.

The meters utilise ultrasonic technology which was selected for its resilience in extreme operating conditions. The FIA chose Gill Sensors for this complex development because of Gill’s 29 years of proven experience in Ultrasonics.

http://www.gillsensors.com/blog/2014/03 ... statement/

[ChrisM40]

Do RB really think they are going to win this? The FIA, Gill, Calibre and most of the other teams are going to close ranks on this on. RB will be lucky if they don't come out of this with extra sanctions.

[timbo]

So what is a Technical Directive? It's not defined anywhere I can see.

Don't forget that there's also a Concorde agreement.

[dans79]

Do RB really think they are going to win this? The FIA, Gill, Calibre and most of the other teams are going to close ranks on this on. RB will be lucky if they don't come out of this with extra sanctions.

While I agree with your first sentence, I'm pretty sure what your second sentence suggests isn't possible.

[ChrisM40]

Do RB really think they are going to win this? The FIA, Gill, Calibre and most of the other teams are going to close ranks on this on. RB will be lucky if they don't come out of this with extra sanctions.

While I agree with your first sentence, I'm pretty sure what your second sentence suggests isn't possible.

Has this not happened before? Im sure it has, and it certainly has in criminal courts.

[Pup]

Probably the only way that would happen would be if some evidence came out that Red Bull intentionally broke the sensor, were lying, etc. in order to cheat. Then the dreaded 151c would come into play and the possibility of further sanctions. It would be a stretch for any of that to happen.

[dans79]

Do RB really think they are going to win this? The FIA, Gill, Calibre and most of the other teams are going to close ranks on this on. RB will be lucky if they don't come out of this with extra sanctions.

While I agree with your first sentence, I'm pretty sure what your second sentence suggests isn't possible.

Has this not happened before? Im sure it has, and it certainly has in criminal courts.

I can't remember a single case where the FIA sanctioned a team for appealing a different sanction. The worst thing that's going to happen to RBR, is the tarnishing of their image, and a beating by the press.

[djos]

Yep, sensor is fine, no one else thinks it's innacurate ....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112973

They arent agruing that "The sensor is fine".

Instead, the teams have accepted that when they are alerted to the possibility the sensor could exceed the 100kg per hour rate at peak flow, irrespective of what their own data says, they have to peg back their rate slightly to ensure there is no breach of the rules.

The most important part is in red, and underlined, in case you missed it in your own link.

Hence, Redbull DQ.

And I'm arguing that the sensor is NOT providing a level playing field due to not being accurate!

Ultrasonic measurement is a last resort, it's resolution is terrible - go ask a senographer to demonstrate one of the new multi-hundred thousand dollar 3D ultra-sound machines next time you are in a radiology dept of a hospital and then compare the imagery to an MRI machine!

[ChrisM40]

Yep, sensor is fine, no one else thinks it's innacurate ....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112973

They arent agruing that "The sensor is fine".

Instead, the teams have accepted that when they are alerted to the possibility the sensor could exceed the 100kg per hour rate at peak flow, irrespective of what their own data says, they have to peg back their rate slightly to ensure there is no breach of the rules.

The most important part is in red, and underlined, in case you missed it in your own link.

Hence, Redbull DQ.

And I'm arguing that the sensor is NOT providing a level playing field due to not being accurate!

Ultrasonic measurement is a last resort, it's resolution is terrible - go ask a senographer to demonstrate one of the new multi-hundred thousand dollar 3D ultra-sound machines next time you are in a radiology dept of a hospital and then compare the imagery to and MRI machine!

We have been over this a million times, it doesnt really matter. At least for this year the FIA will not back down, RB have no case.

[djos]

We have been over this a million times, it doesnt really matter. At least for this year the FIA will not back down, RB have no case.

RedBull will win this fight, they will IMO show data proving that the 2 different sensors provided to them showed wildly varying results and therefore can't be trusted.

[beelsebob]

We have been over this a million times, it doesnt really matter. At least for this year the FIA will not back down, RB have no case.

RedBull will win this fight, they will IMO show data proving that the 2 different sensors provided to them showed wildly varying results and therefore can't be trusted.

Why would that make them able to win the fight? They already showed the varying data to the FIA. The FIA told them it was within spec, and to get on and race within those constraints.

[WillerZ]

There is a precedent for appealing a penalty making the punishment worse.