2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
djones
djones
20
Joined: 17 Mar 2005, 15:01

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

The communication in terms of not updating Hamilton on his teammate did seem very poor. He could have closed up sooner had he known the full plan.

To me, the acceleration was a little suspicious between the two in the final 4 or so laps. It was like George was allowed to run a higher power mode or something.

User avatar
214270
18
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 18:49

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

I’m still confused why there was so much fuel remaining in his tank? 0.8kg approx is the 1litre that needs to be returned to stewards, so why is he carrying so much more? Is 2.8ltrs a normal amount? At time of weighing, had the fuel sample been taken (ie) was he in fact over by more at race end?

Edit: Confusing litres & kg, my bad
Last edited by 214270 on 28 Jul 2024, 21:26, edited 2 times in total.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

Venturiation
Venturiation
98
Joined: 04 Jan 2023, 19:48

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

So, five cars one stopped. All medium/hard. Tsunoda, K-MAG, Stroll and Alonso were legal on weight at the end of the race

63 it's not the tyres it's something else

zibby43
zibby43
613
Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Car was likely fueled assuming a SC.

Or a mistake with ballast. Those are my guesses.

matt_b
matt_b
2
Joined: 11 Jul 2012, 12:03

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

djones wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 20:51
The communication in terms of not updating Hamilton on his teammate did seem very poor. He could have closed up sooner had he known the full plan.

To me, the acceleration was a little suspicious between the two in the final 4 or so laps. It was like George was allowed to run a higher power mode or something.
Lewis engine has done Canada, Spain, Austria, UK, Hungary and now Belgium.

Georges has only done 33 laps of UK, Hungary and now Belgium.

George was probably allowed to run a higher mode given huge mileage difference between the two.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Hamilton was down 4km/h in qualifying. Was it not established that he had a higher downforce beam wing? Beam wing doesn't come down when the DRS opens.
A lion must kill its prey.

PapayaFan481
PapayaFan481
0
Joined: 16 Feb 2024, 13:08

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

"The car was not fully drained according to the draining procedure submitted by the team in their legality documents as TR Article 6.5.2 is fulfilled."

Now that can be read in 2 different ways. The first is the way many seem to be, which is to read it as Mercedes not draining the according the a declared draining procedure, ie that they were trying to cheat and cover up that the car was underweight. The other is that the team declared in their draining procedure that they had not fully drained the car, ie they informed the FIA that there was still fuel in the car and were not trying to hide anything.
If I come across as blunt, I apologise, it's my ASD. Sometimes, like an F1 car aqua-planing, it gets out of my control.

User avatar
Mattchu
53
Joined: 07 Jul 2014, 19:37

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

zibby43 wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:35
Car was likely fueled assuming a SC.

Or a mistake with ballast. Those are my guesses.
I don`t think it was anything to do with fuel as the car must reach 798kg with no fuel at all. The ballast theory is more likely although the tyre theory with regards to maximum wear and no chance of pick up to add weight could cover it.

The tyres must weigh at least 8/9kg...

Just a cock-up by Merc with they have taken on the chin!

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
16
Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 12:10

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

PapayaFan481 wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:42
"The car was not fully drained according to the draining procedure submitted by the team in their legality documents as TR Article 6.5.2 is fulfilled."

Now that can be read in 2 different ways. The first is the way many seem to be, which is to read it as Mercedes not draining the according the a declared draining procedure, ie that they were trying to cheat and cover up that the car was underweight. The other is that the team declared in their draining procedure that they had not fully drained the car, ie they informed the FIA that there was still fuel in the car and were not trying to hide anything.
I think it is obviously first interpretation.

Why would Mercedes not drain it fully (according to the procedure).

PapayaFan481
PapayaFan481
0
Joined: 16 Feb 2024, 13:08

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

FittingMechanics wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:47
PapayaFan481 wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:42
"The car was not fully drained according to the draining procedure submitted by the team in their legality documents as TR Article 6.5.2 is fulfilled."

Now that can be read in 2 different ways. The first is the way many seem to be, which is to read it as Mercedes not draining the according the a declared draining procedure, ie that they were trying to cheat and cover up that the car was underweight. The other is that the team declared in their draining procedure that they had not fully drained the car, ie they informed the FIA that there was still fuel in the car and were not trying to hide anything.
I think it is obviously first interpretation.

Why would Mercedes not drain it fully (according to the procedure).
Why would they not? Fuel still in the car would be easy to spot. It's not like they have a hidden tank unlike in their BAR days.
If I come across as blunt, I apologise, it's my ASD. Sometimes, like an F1 car aqua-planing, it gets out of my control.

PapayaFan481
PapayaFan481
0
Joined: 16 Feb 2024, 13:08

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

Mattchu wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:46
zibby43 wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:35
Car was likely fueled assuming a SC.

Or a mistake with ballast. Those are my guesses.
I don`t think it was anything to do with fuel as the car must reach 798kg with no fuel at all. The ballast theory is more likely although the tyre theory with regards to maximum wear and no chance of pick up to add weight could cover it.

The tyres must weigh at least 8/9kg...

Just a cock-up by Merc with they have taken on the chin!
I think it was tyres. If they can pick up as much as 400g per tyre in loose rubber on a cool down lap, then surely it stands to reason that switching to a 1 stop could mean they lose a similar amount more rubber over the extra 15-20 laps?
If I come across as blunt, I apologise, it's my ASD. Sometimes, like an F1 car aqua-planing, it gets out of my control.

User avatar
Mattchu
53
Joined: 07 Jul 2014, 19:37

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

The people claiming Merc tried to pull a fast one with the fuel are living in cloud cuckoo land!

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
16
Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 12:10

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

PapayaFan481 wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:48
FittingMechanics wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:47
PapayaFan481 wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:42
"The car was not fully drained according to the draining procedure submitted by the team in their legality documents as TR Article 6.5.2 is fulfilled."

Now that can be read in 2 different ways. The first is the way many seem to be, which is to read it as Mercedes not draining the according the a declared draining procedure, ie that they were trying to cheat and cover up that the car was underweight. The other is that the team declared in their draining procedure that they had not fully drained the car, ie they informed the FIA that there was still fuel in the car and were not trying to hide anything.
I think it is obviously first interpretation.

Why would Mercedes not drain it fully (according to the procedure).
Why would they not? Fuel still in the car would be easy to spot. It's not like they have a hidden tank unlike in their BAR days.
It is a flexible fuel tank.

I think it makes no sense that Mercedes doesn't drain it fully and then brings a car with 798kg weight to weighing and says, you know what, we didn't drain it fully.

They need to drain it. Makes no sense to not drain and be open about it.

Only thing that makes sense is that the, drained to 798 and sent it to weighing.

User avatar
214270
18
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 18:49

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

zibby43 wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:35
Car was likely fueled assuming a SC.

Or a mistake with ballast. Those are my guesses.
It’s the other way round, typically you underfuel if factoring in a SC.

They had the fuel in-tank to bring the car up to weigh limit, that’s the curious element.
Team ANTI-HYPE. Prove it, then I’ll anoint you.

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
33
Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: 2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

Post

PapayaFan481 wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:50
Mattchu wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:46
zibby43 wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 21:35
Car was likely fueled assuming a SC.

Or a mistake with ballast. Those are my guesses.
I don`t think it was anything to do with fuel as the car must reach 798kg with no fuel at all. The ballast theory is more likely although the tyre theory with regards to maximum wear and no chance of pick up to add weight could cover it.

The tyres must weigh at least 8/9kg...

Just a cock-up by Merc with they have taken on the chin!
I think it was tyres. If they can pick up as much as 400g per tyre in loose rubber on a cool down lap, then surely it stands to reason that switching to a 1 stop could mean they lose a similar amount more rubber over the extra 15-20 laps?
As noted at the top of this page, Alonso and Stroll did only a couple fewer laps on their second stint on a one stop strategy just like George and they both made the minimum weight without picking up marbles.

So for some reason, George had a car that was a couple kg lighter than it should have been at all competitive parts of the weekend, given nothing is allowed to be changed as soon as the car leaves the garage in Q1.