Spanish GP 2012 - Barcelona

[ringo]

I hope he starts on hards and weave his way through then a safety car or 2 juggle things up.
I'll be glad is Maldonado wins if Hamilton can't get what's rightfully his.

[astracrazy]

No – it doesn't – again, this argument has nothing to do with Lewis, it's only a demonstration that the rule is flawed.

Even if you do what you say you're gambling. They could stop you & check fuel or weight. The same way they tried to stop Vergne in Bahrain. I mean I guess if you want to think of ways to contravene the rules, but you could get called in at any minute to be checked.

Demonstrate one occasion of them doing a fuel check in the middle of Q3. Ever.

either way, its still flawed

[cobart]

Take away P1 from Lewis? OK.

Then take away VICTORY from Vettel!

Exactly... What's going on Formula... ???? I am so sad about this, right now. Where is the fairness?

ask mr.Radovan Novak

[myurr]

either way, its still flawed

thanks for your detailed input there

[beelsebob]

I hope he starts on hards and weave his way through then a safety car or 2 juggle things up.
I'll be glad is Maldonado wins if Hamilton can't get what's rightfully his.

I wouldn't be surprised if Igor were the cause of your hoped for safety car

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Demonstrate one occasion of them doing a fuel check in the middle of Q3. Ever.

What did they try and stop Vergne for in Bahrain Quali? I think either fuel or weight. And how do you know they don't check fuel? Are you in the paddock?

But either way who cares? It's not the middle of Q3 we're talking about. I understand what you're saying but it's not relevant.

[ESPImperium]

@ ESP. I'm afraid any further change to the rules would be dreadfully unfair on those having had the punishment metered out to them.

True, but the FIA have previous to in season rule changes on the sporting and technical front.

I think for Monaco there will be a change in regulation for this fuel, dump and run that the teams are doing.

Remember that in 2008 the cars once they set their fastest time in Q3 they literally took a year and a day to come back to the pits so they had the most fuel they could possibly have for the race. They added in a rule there, and i see no reason why they can't add in a rule to stop this burn and run technique that has been the scourge since 2010 and the return of refuelling.

And the technique of saving tyres since Bridgestone left is just as bad.

The fans are being deprived of seeing the punch and counter punch of Q3 should offer. Quali once was a must watch part of the weekend, however since Pirelli came into F1 Quali has been great for Q1 and Q2 but Q3 is more for going for lunch or putting on the kettle for a cup of tea (or coffee) or taking the dog out for a pee. Its almost forgettable and just give me the result after as teams will always stay in, or go out on used tyres and set a sector time or two.

Q3 should be a key point of the F1 weekend, and should be key to the first stint of the race.

Qualifying is defined as this:

Search Results
qual·i·fy
verb /ˈkwäləˌfī/ 
qualified, past participle; qualified, past tense; qualifies, 3rd person singular present; qualifying, present participle

Be entitled to a particular benefit or privilege by fulfilling a necessary condition
- they do not qualify for compensation payments

Become eligible for a competition or its final rounds, by reaching a certain standard or defeating a competitor
- he failed to qualify for the Olympic team
- a World Cup qualifying game

Be or make properly entitled to be classed in a particular way
- he qualifies as a genuine political refugee

Become officially recognized as a practitioner of a particular profession or activity by satisfying the relevant conditions or requirements, typically by undertaking a course of study and passing examinations
- after the war he qualified as a lawyer
- I've only just qualified

Officially recognize or establish (someone) as a practitioner of a particular profession or activity
- the courses qualify you as an instructor of the sport

Make (someone) competent or knowledgeable enough to do something
- I'm not qualified to write on the subject

Make (a statement or assertion) less absolute; add reservations to
- she felt obliged to qualify her first short answer

Make (something extreme or undesirable) less severe or extreme
- his sincere piety, his large heart alway qualify his errors

Alter the strength or flavor of (something, esp. a liquid)
- he qualified his mug of water with a plentiful infusion of the liquor

Attribute a specified quality to something; describe something as
- the propositions have been qualified as heretical

(of a word or phrase) Attribute a quality to (another word, esp. a preceding noun)

SOURCE: http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=s ... 80&bih=618

Which Q3 to me isn't Qualifying. Its scratching your backside or tickling your chin.

[beelsebob]

Demonstrate one occasion of them doing a fuel check in the middle of Q3. Ever.

What did they try and stop Vergne for in Bahrain Quali? I think either fuel or weight. And how do you know they don't check fuel? Are you in the paddock?

But either way who cares? It's not the middle of Q3 we're talking about. I understand what you're saying but it's not relevant.

Even if you decide you're not going to take the (very high) chance that they won't check your fuel level between runs in Q3, it's still possible to get round this rule by dumping it into a gravel trap.

[astracrazy]

either way, its still flawed

thanks for your detailed input there

i'm just saying if they do or don't the rule is flawed. because the fact that they rarely (if ever) do check there is a high % you'll get away with it

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Even if you decide you're not going to take the (very high) chance that they won't check your fuel level between runs in Q3, it's still possible to get round this rule by dumping it into a gravel trap.

I get it. There's a way around it. I don't see how that's relevant. Vergne was stopped in Q1 to check weight. Who's to say they didn't check his fuel. I don't know how often they get fuel samples. I'd stipulate not often. But during any Quali session is irrelevant as we're talking about the end of Quali in parc ferme. I know you're not talking about Lewis specifically. But again back to it's relevance that you can get around the rule.

[myurr]

Demonstrate one occasion of them doing a fuel check in the middle of Q3. Ever.

What did they try and stop Vergne for in Bahrain Quali? I think either fuel or weight. And how do you know they don't check fuel? Are you in the paddock?

But either way who cares? It's not the middle of Q3 we're talking about. I understand what you're saying but it's not relevant.

Wasn't that after the flag and NOT in the middle of the session? Okay let's take that as irrelevant.

Do you agree that the punishment fits the crime? Schumacher was given the same penalty for parking his car in Monaco. Maldonado was given the same penalty when he was judged to have deliberately crashed his car into Hamilton's in Spa. Is being under fuelled by your team and gaining no material advantage from it equivalent to those two acts and justifies the same penalty?

[bhall]

One would think that after Melbourne, where Button (and Hamilton?) ostensibly ran half the race in fuel-saving mode, McLaren wouldn't leave their fuel margins so razor thin.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Wasn't that after the flag and NOT in the middle of the session? Okay let's take that as irrelevant.

Do you agree that the punishment fits the crime? Schumacher was given the same penalty for parking his car in Monaco. Maldonado was given the same penalty when he was judged to have deliberately crashed his car into Hamilton's in Spa. Is being under fuelled by your team and gaining no material advantage from it equivalent to those two acts and justifies the same penalty?

Fine about Vergne. Bottom line is yes he should be DQ'd. He failed scrutineering. It's black & white. No gray area here.

[Gerhard Berger]

Wasn't that after the flag and NOT in the middle of the session? Okay let's take that as irrelevant.

Do you agree that the punishment fits the crime? Schumacher was given the same penalty for parking his car in Monaco. Maldonado was given the same penalty when he was judged to have deliberately crashed his car into Hamilton's in Spa. Is being under fuelled by your team and gaining no material advantage from it equivalent to those two acts and justifies the same penalty?

Fine about Vergne. Bottom line is yes he should be DQ'd. He failed scrutineering. It's black & white. No gray area here.

Exactly. I remember Irvine failed scrutineering in qualifying once (think it was Magny Cours 96) for his barge boards being too tall, and he was sent to the back.

[andartop]

McLaren has a long history of really pushing the limits in all areas trying to get the most out of it, which is what F1 should really be about. When it does work, it's brilliant. But sometimes it doesn't. People should just accept that and move on.

Was the penalty unfair? No. Even more so since Lewis & McLaren were the reason these rules were implemented in the first place. Were the consequences of the penalty harsh? Yes, but that is irrelevant. People bringing up Button as an example should really think twice about it: this only shows that the stewards do NOT have a grudge against McLaren, rather the other way around! Let us not forget that last time around in Bahrain, whether we like it or not, Rosberg was found not to have breached any rules, which should automatically have triggered a penalty for Lewis for overtaking with all four wheels out of the track.

Would it have been more appropriate to demote Lewis to 10th position? I think so, but I don't know if that would have been possible since he was disqualified.