2024 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, Sep 13-15

[Farnborough]

Sainz is following racing line.

No he isn't.

It was ruled racing incident but your take would absolutely not survive if Max was instead of Sainz.

It would be the fault of the car that is drifting left, when the straight line road is going into a lefthander turn (turn 3). Regardless of who the drifter is - Sainz, Max or lord Ayrton Senna himself.
Grow up.

Nobody has to follow the racing line in a racing situation. It’s more often than not that a driver swerves across to cover another car or force them to take a narrower line for the coming corner. The problem is when you start doing what Schumacher did to Rubens in Hungary, forcing someone who has the right for room to back out or else there is a crash.

Sainz did nothing of the sort. Perez had ample room to go more towards the inside line, but didn’t and they crashed. I can see how they ruled it a racing incident though as neither driver did anything overtly wrong, it was just that their trajectories met. But personally I would put it more on Perez as he should be able to judge that he needs to go a bit more left when he can see Sainz’ car.

In the rules .... Perez has to give the other car room such that he didn't get squeezed, he did that.

Let's not be naive here, this section of track is a tactical chess game of "flip flopping" the opposite driver into gaining advantage over the next corner or sequence they reach .... that's genuine racing. Its supposed to be such in a competitive sport.

Perez fully gave the required room to Sainz, but Sainz did not contain himself to that legitimately given (within the rules) part of the track.

[toraabe]

Another thing is that RB needs Checo at the upcoming street circuits . He is one of the best there....

[FittingMechanics]

Does anyone have an explanation for how Leclerc lost his 6 second lead? Did he make a mistake on his in-lap or struggle in the pits? He came out like a second ahead of Piastri despite having a 6 second gap just one lap earlier. Surely Piastri didn't make up 6 seconds on his out lap?

Combination of factors. He lost about 1.5 seconds by staying out lap longer. This is usual time loss for undercut.

Then he had a slow inlap/outlap. To me mostly it looked like a slow outlap on first few corners out of the pits as you can see him exit a bit further ahead and then get caught by Albon.

Leclerc and Ferrari said the issue was that Leclerc had no running on hards this weekend so didn't know how quickly he can warm up his tires.

[bananapeel23]

Does anyone have an explanation for how Leclerc lost his 6 second lead? Did he make a mistake on his in-lap or struggle in the pits? He came out like a second ahead of Piastri despite having a 6 second gap just one lap earlier. Surely Piastri didn't make up 6 seconds on his out lap?

Combination of factors. He lost about 1.5 seconds by staying out lap longer. This is usual time loss for undercut.

Then he had a slow inlap/outlap. To me mostly it looked like a slow outlap on first few corners out of the pits as you can see him exit a bit further ahead and then get caught by Albon.

Leclerc and Ferrari said the issue was that Leclerc had no running on hards this weekend so didn't know how quickly he can warm up his tires.

They really should have gone for the undercut as soon as it became obvious that Piastri was falling back and wouldn't have been able to make the overcut work becuase he was losing too much pace on the mediums. Hindsight is 20/20 though, usually track position is king so you can't really blame Leclerc or Ferrari for their pit strategy, although Ferrari should really have instructed him to push a little bit harder on the out lap.

Ferrari was clearly the faster car on the Hards too, they just didn't have the top speed of the McLaren.

[FittingMechanics]

They really should have gone for the undercut as soon as it became obvious that Piastri was falling back and wouldn't have been able to make the overcut work becuase he was losing too much pace on the mediums. Hindsight is 20/20 though, usually track position is king so you can't really blame Leclerc or Ferrari for their pit strategy, although Ferrari should really have instructed him to push a little bit harder on the out lap.

Ferrari was clearly the faster car on the Hards too, they just didn't have the top speed of the McLaren.

I'm not confident Ferrari was faster car on hards. Norris was on older hards doing the same laptimes as Piastri/Leclerc. I think the pace was very close between the two cars. It could really be that whoever has clean air is the slightly faster car but the car in DRS can stay attached for long periods of time until their tires are gone. Maybe a proper strategy for Leclerc was to drop back to 2-3 seconds and then attack at the end. He was so close for so many laps without proper attacks that it ultimately destroyed his tires.

Leclerc was compromised because he had issues in free practices so he had bad outlaps. Having an undercut or overcut doesn't really help with that.

[bananapeel23]

They really should have gone for the undercut as soon as it became obvious that Piastri was falling back and wouldn't have been able to make the overcut work becuase he was losing too much pace on the mediums. Hindsight is 20/20 though, usually track position is king so you can't really blame Leclerc or Ferrari for their pit strategy, although Ferrari should really have instructed him to push a little bit harder on the out lap.

Ferrari was clearly the faster car on the Hards too, they just didn't have the top speed of the McLaren.

I'm not confident Ferrari was faster car on hards. Norris was on older hards doing the same laptimes as Piastri/Leclerc. I think the pace was very close between the two cars. It could really be that whoever has clean air is the slightly faster car but the car in DRS can stay attached for long periods of time until their tires are gone. Maybe a proper strategy for Leclerc was to drop back to 2-3 seconds and then attack at the end. He was so close for so many laps without proper attacks that it ultimately destroyed his tires.

Leclerc was compromised because he had issues in free practices so he had bad outlaps. Having an undercut or overcut doesn't really help with that.

Leclerc couldn't back off due to Perez. That was the issue. Piastri was holding him up and couldn't really drop Perez, meaning Leclerc was forced into a Piastri-Perez sandwich. You need to keep in mind that Leclerc had the 3rd worst deg on the hards while Sainz had less deg than both Piastri and Leclerc. Leclerc is undeniably a better tyre whisperer than Sainz, too. Had Leclerc not been forced to sit in that sandwich between Perez and Piastri, he would probably have been able to drop back a few seconds to save tyres, then make a late push for the win with a small tyre delta.

The fact that he managed to sit in that dirty air for about 30 laps before dropping out of DRS really proves how fast he was. McLaren won due to track position and top speed, not outright pace.

[Seanspeed]

And that is how F1 should be. Innovating, exploiting gray areas, technical development.

Mclaren can be applauded for exploiting a grey area in the rules(though of course it's 'cheating' when Ferrari or Red Bull do similar). But the FIA is a joke for continuing to allow it and not even attempting to crack down on it after it was brought to their attention with clear evidence, and doing so almost assuredly because of how 'exciting' it is to have a non-RB/Verstappen championship. People are rightfully annoyed to see this season potentially getting decided by the FIA and not proper, fair competition.

It's not a big deal. Either everyone will make one for 2025 or it will be banned for 2025.

It's a pretty big deal for this year.

[Andres125sx]

In the rules .... Perez has to give the other car room such that he didn't get squeezed, he did that.

Let's not be naive here, this section of track is a tactical chess game of "flip flopping" the opposite driver into gaining advantage over the next corner or sequence they reach .... that's genuine racing. Its supposed to be such in a competitive sport.

Perez fully gave the required room to Sainz, but Sainz did not contain himself to that legitimately given (within the rules) part of the track.

It's the car in front who must give room to the chasing car, not the other way around. Sainz did, actually he left way way more than needed.

How many drivers have squeezed another car almost to the wall in an attempt to avoid being passed? Uncountable! But while there's enough room for a car width, it's ok

Sainz left 2-3 car room. Can't grasp how people can criticize a driver who didn't even squeezed the chasing car, when squeezing the chasing car/bike is a standard in any racing motorsport

[bananapeel23]

In the rules .... Perez has to give the other car room such that he didn't get squeezed, he did that.

Let's not be naive here, this section of track is a tactical chess game of "flip flopping" the opposite driver into gaining advantage over the next corner or sequence they reach .... that's genuine racing. Its supposed to be such in a competitive sport.

Perez fully gave the required room to Sainz, but Sainz did not contain himself to that legitimately given (within the rules) part of the track.

It's the car in front who must give room to the chasing car, not the other way around. Sainz did, actually he left way way more than needed.

How many drivers have squeezed another car almost to the wall in an attempt to avoid being passed? Uncountable! But while there's enough room for a car width, it's ok

Sainz left 2-3 car room. Can't grasp how people can criticize a driver who didn't even squeezed the chasing car, when squeezing the chasing car/bike is a standard in any racing motorsport

What kind of racing are people expecting? F1 isn't a highway where you should remain in your lane and not move when someone tries to overtake you. You have every right to move (within reason) to make the overtake difficult for the opposing driving. Do people expect Sainz to just sit there and allow himself to be overtaken without putting up a fight?

Weaving on the straight is one thing, but squeezing a driver to prevent him from taking a tow is a completely fair and reasonable thing to do and absolutely not in breach of any rules. Perez had plenty of space to move out of the way and didn't. They crashed. It's unfortunate, but ultimately the racing wasn't dirty from Sainz and Perez made a stupid mistake.

[browney]

Me and the stewards might be the only ones..... But I think it happened really quickly and neither of them realise quite what the other was doing...

Racing incident

[Farnborough]

Sainz had a perfectly clear part of the track in which to work, wasn't clear of the other car at any point to take a line of "superiority " and simply drove into the side of a competitor.

The naive point still stands, each wanted to hold their line with the corners that were coming, Sainz had compromised himself against his teammate CL having to yeald to corner #2 apex, it would have been a fair race to next corner, at which we'd have seen the true outcome of whichever of the two (SP & CS) had gained that advantage. Thats racing, that's what we as spectators want to see.

Anyway, Sainz seems to be negotiating his way down the field and ultimately seeing his career come to nothing significant. Perhaps Williams would be better keeping Colapinto for next year in comparison to this attitude.

[jody391]

Looking at Sainz onboard his steering does move before and up to the point of contact, for me Checo was to blame, if any has to be aportioned.

[Tvetovnato]

Sainz had a perfectly clear part of the track in which to work, wasn't clear of the other car at any point to take a line of "superiority " and simply drove into the side of a competitor.

The naive point still stands, each wanted to hold their line with the corners that were coming, Sainz had compromised himself against his teammate CL having to yeald to corner #2 apex, it would have been a fair race to next corner, at which we'd have seen the true outcome of whichever of the two (SP & CS) had gained that advantage. Thats racing, that's what we as spectators want to see.

Anyway, Sainz seems to be negotiating his way down the field and ultimately seeing his career come to nothing significant. Perhaps Williams would be better keeping Colapinto for next year in comparison to this attitude.

Attitude?? What attitude? Racing another driver expecting him to use his steering wheel to place his car slightly to the left to avoid a forseeable contact?
And all of Sainz’ accomplishments so far are now undone by a racing incident, and Colapinto who has driven two races is a better choice?

This forum…

[Farnborough]

Both cars had a clear line along the track without need to interfere with the other driver.

Sainz moved, when he didn't need to, didn't clear the other car space to make that safe, anything like that to MAKE someone else move (he wasn't in risk of touching the barrier) requiring the other driver to take avoiding action, is his fault, and or intention. He was doing that to intimidate and force the other driver to give way to himself.

Its really simple.

Attitude, yep. And it'll likely take his career with it.

[SiLo]

They were both gaming for the Leclerc slipstream and neither wanted to budge. Sainz made the move slowly and Perez didn't. I think there is a little more onus on Perez to avoid seeing as he can easily see where Sainz is, but I think they are driving into a setting sun, so it might have been a bit more difficult to accurately judge it.