Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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segedunum
segedunum
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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Moanlower wrote:Eat your heart out. :lol:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83684
No, because as we all know the stewards don't even know their own rules and regulations. It has nothing to do with Damon Hill. The safety car was in, the green lights were off and the SC conditions had been closed. It was absolutely crystal clear, even though race control might not have done what they probably should have done. It's another example of what happens when Ferrari get embarrassed and desperate. Ross Brawn will have seen it coming.

Par for the course really. It's just one of those things that turns people off Formula One. The sport is governed in an extremely amateurish way.

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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feynman wrote:
mx_tifosi wrote: It's wrong because he's constantly publicly complaining to his team. It's like when children talk back to their parents in public, it's downright embarrassing.
Regarding that as a transgression is however predicated on some notion of 'respect for the race-engineers'. Well that respect is earned, and can be lost.

It is increasingly clear that Lewis (and Jenson too), have lost confidence in the engineering support they recieve. Stategy mis-steps, rain-radar disasters, incorrect information, answering not the question that was asked, miscalls of basic rulebook readings. (Notwithstanding whatever twisted logic eminates from the stewards room)

Ross Brawn is sitting on the pitwall with a banana making a monkey out of the layers and layers and layers of middle-managers that presently occupy McLaren race engineering.

From Dave Ryan and Jarno in Oz, all the way through to watching Jenson this year 'ignoring' the pit-wall and being handsomely rewarded, it is clear he has lost confidence in what he is being told, he is forced to double-guess everything, that's brand new, he used to treat the pitwall and Uncle Ron as infallible.

His attitude to the information that after half a race on a low-brake-wear circuit, that his brakes were gone, was a clear insight into Lewis's thinking on the matter. He couldn't believe it, and had to (emphatically) question the information.

Phil Prew on the similarly public radio, last year in Germany, "you just do the driving, we'll do strategy", now that represents an inexcusable, and unprofessional slap-down in front of a global TV audience, a parent scolding a child ... but this should be nothing to do with parents and children, it is two adults. Lewis is all grown-up now.

Mission Controls, paralysis analysis, paperwork and procedure, that only counts if you are winning, if the driver is outdriving the engineering, then the engineers need to step-up, need to raise their game ... and while they are at it, if someone gets a chance, d'you fancy take the plugs out the raditors, eh?
excellent analysis... and on the Phil Prew situation, Hamilton was right, it was pointless to be running around wasting engine milage after he was lapped.

segedunum
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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ecapox wrote:NO MATTER WHAT, if the safety car is on during the last lap, EVEN IF THE FLAGS ARE GREEN AND THE SC LIGHTS ARE OUT, rule 40.13 trumps rule 40.7.
So the drivers should now ignore every flag, light and sign they see on the track? :?

These stewards are utterly incompetent. The one thing that Michael Schumacher has done at Monaco that is fair and clear.
Last edited by segedunum on 16 May 2010, 19:17, edited 1 time in total.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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ecapox wrote:Lets mark this down then, based on the Steward's decision:

NO MATTER WHAT, if the safety car is on during the last lap, EVEN IF THE FLAGS ARE GREEN AND THE SC LIGHTS ARE OUT, rule 40.13 trumps rule 40.7.

Lets not now talk about Damon's revenge. His opinion doesnt trump all the other stewards.
Well, I just refuse to take your command then.

We know that the driver stewards have a very strong influence. They completely turned the FiA policy upside down in the first five races and stopped the silly punishments, which makes Mr. Hill's and colleque's decision even more questionable. IMHO this is completely ridiculous. You cannot turn a green light on and expect the drivers to hold back from passing.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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feynman wrote: Whaddya mean, it doesn't matter if the flags were Green, that is the ONLY thing that matters ... are you now saying the flags are a serving suggestion, dangerous game, do red flags still mean what they used to, or has that all changed to?

You throw a green, the race is on. If you didn't mean to throw it, then admit, and apologise for your error, you don't scapegoat someone that got caught in the crossfire of your administrative incompetence.
+1
Last edited by WhiteBlue on 16 May 2010, 19:19, edited 1 time in total.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Skinn3r55
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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Mercedes have appealed the decision, so everybody can calm down...for the time being.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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Skinn3r55 wrote:Mercedes have appealed the decision, so everybody can calm down...for the time being.
I would have been extremely surprised if they had not! As I said it was clearly a revanche decision and completely against the spirit of the previous stewarding in 2010.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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zgred
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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WhiteBlue wrote:
zgred wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:
Well, what do you expect from Hill? Clearly a revenche punishment. I reckon there will be a protest.
This is childish accusation, moreover Hill's role is just advisory one.
It isn't. The driver stewards are full steawards. And Schumacher was was expecting Hill to manipulate the result! This will have another round of legal debate. Watch it!
O really, Conspiracy Theory. Sorry to say but I just don't buy it. You really believe that taking P.6 from Schumacher is sweet revenge for Hill? Even if he has superior power to control other stewards minds?
On the other hand this whole situation is bad for F1 and was artificially created just to pass cars free for last 200 meters and flag waving. Idiotic move from the race control crew.
samstre wrote:1. Damon Hilll is a little baby who was once lucky enough, to drive the fastest car on the field.

2. Some kind of ironic... The are making really weird rules and spend millions to allow overtaking and if someone finally does (at a place where overtaking is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE), he gets punished???

SCREW YA FIA!

(Sorry! That had to be said!)
Sorry to say samstre but this kind of posts are really bad for F1Technical level.
Last edited by mx_tifoso on 16 May 2010, 21:26, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited quote because I felt bad deleting part of your post.

Jersey Tom
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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With regard to the Hamilton thing.. drivers get frustrated with engineers, and engineers get frustrated with drivers. Happens with probably every team on the field, and I've certainly heard a hell of a lot worse.

Just not the thing you want to be making available on public radio.
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alberto222mx
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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Let´s wait for the Mercedes protest.. If somebody screwed up, was the Race Control with the message "SC in this lap" and restarting the race with green flags. That´s not Schumacher´s or Brawn´s fault.

And of course it is Hill's revenge...
"Why doesn´t someone tell Pedro it´s raining" - Chris Amon, 1000km Brands Hatch, 1970

Giblet
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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People seem to think that Hill and Wurz etc are sitting on the Stewards throne with Scepter in hand able to rule as they please.

This is simply not the case.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

segedunum
segedunum
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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Skinn3r55 wrote:Mercedes have appealed the decision, so everybody can calm down...for the time being.
Bloody hell I would. This is ridiculous. 40.13 doesn't apply because the SC wasn't deployed when the race ended. Had the safety car crossed the start/finish line with the field then fair enough, or safety car lights were still applied.

I suspect this is some arse covering because race control wrongly lifted the safety car conditions on the last lap and didn't know their own rules.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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ISLAMATRON wrote:
feynman wrote:
mx_tifosi wrote: It's wrong because he's constantly publicly complaining to his team. It's like when children talk back to their parents in public, it's downright embarrassing.
Regarding that as a transgression is however predicated on some notion of 'respect for the race-engineers'. Well that respect is earned, and can be lost.

It is increasingly clear that Lewis (and Jenson too), have lost confidence in the engineering support they recieve. Stategy mis-steps, rain-radar disasters, incorrect information, answering not the question that was asked, miscalls of basic rulebook readings. (Notwithstanding whatever twisted logic eminates from the stewards room)

Ross Brawn is sitting on the pitwall with a banana making a monkey out of the layers and layers and layers of middle-managers that presently occupy McLaren race engineering.

From Dave Ryan and Jarno in Oz, all the way through to watching Jenson this year 'ignoring' the pit-wall and being handsomely rewarded, it is clear he has lost confidence in what he is being told, he is forced to double-guess everything, that's brand new, he used to treat the pitwall and Uncle Ron as infallible.

His attitude to the information that after half a race on a low-brake-wear circuit, that his brakes were gone, was a clear insight into Lewis's thinking on the matter. He couldn't believe it, and had to (emphatically) question the information.

Phil Prew on the similarly public radio, last year in Germany, "you just do the driving, we'll do strategy", now that represents an inexcusable, and unprofessional slap-down in front of a global TV audience, a parent scolding a child ... but this should be nothing to do with parents and children, it is two adults. Lewis is all grown-up now.

Mission Controls, paralysis analysis, paperwork and procedure, that only counts if you are winning, if the driver is outdriving the engineering, then the engineers need to step-up, need to raise their game ... and while they are at it, if someone gets a chance, d'you fancy take the plugs out the raditors, eh?
excellent analysis... and on the Phil Prew situation, Hamilton was right, it was pointless to be running around wasting engine milage after he was lapped.
Tell you what, take Lewis out the Mclaren and whack him in a Lotus or Virgin. Because if he questions McLaren, he isnt worthy to drive their bloody car either.
Talented as he is, he is also tempestuous beyond doubt. Anyone defending him by saying he isnt is just a blinded fan boy.

And the Schumacher decision is disgraceful IMO. To the letter of the law they did good. Now Hill and his cronies dream this --- up? I await an explanation...
More could have been done.
David Purley

Jersey Tom
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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alberto222mx wrote:And of course it is Hill's revenge...
:roll:

Do you think Damon even gives a ---? The man's been out of GP racing for how long now?

And.. as was said repeatedly.. Hill doesn't call the shots. Get over yourselves, folks.
Last edited by Jersey Tom on 16 May 2010, 19:27, edited 2 times in total.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

ggajic
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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Rules are rules. But in that case, I don't get it - when safety car entered pits - flags should have remained yellow. That would make situation clear! When flags are green it means: race!