Ferrari F2012

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Gerhard Berger
Gerhard Berger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 11:17

Re: Ferrari F2012

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FrukostScones wrote:the front pull-rod suspension might be mechanically sound but it's unnecessary (Adrian Newey said so, only reason to do it is to do it differently) and aero realted it was clearly a mistake (unwanted, hard to evaluate vortices disturbing airflow),
that is what I read and it made sense to me.
I bet it will be gone 2013.
Tombazis said it has an aerodynamic benefit.

I know that alot of papers have said there that it creates vortices which were not seen in the wind tunnel. Not sure how true that is though.

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amouzouris
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Joined: 14 Feb 2011, 20:21

Re: Ferrari F2012

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I'm sorry for the delay...i was too busy with exams...but i managed to make drawings of most of the upgrades brought in Spain... i didn't manage to finish the slight variations of the bodywork around the exhaust area...ill try to finish it before Monaco!

First up is the new front wing:

There were slight modifications to the endplates to make them work more efficiently...also there were new cascade wings... the innermost part now features two elements and the outermost part is shorter where it meets the endplate:
Image

Also a new diffuser was tested in Spain and the monkey seat was added on the new detached beam wing tested in mugello...

Old diffuser:

Image

New diffuser and beam wing featuring the monkey seat and a gurney flap on the beam wing, also the wing shaped flap on top of the diffuser now also features a gurney flap....the diffuser strakes have been reshaped and are more curved at the bottom now and there are dips where the two big strakes meet the top of the diffuser (ala Red Bull)...the wing shaped flaped has also been reshaped on those two areas:

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Redragon
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Joined: 24 May 2011, 12:23

Re: Ferrari F2012

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xpensive wrote:
Redragon wrote: ...
Get over it, not reasons to blame that suspension.
You know what, when this is a discussion board, I will reserve myself the right to an opinion even if it contradicts even the wisest and most xperienced of engineers on this fine forum.

Based on earlier arguments, I still believe that Ferrari went too far with this layout, but that it will be the way to go in 2014.
You have absolutely right to have an opinion, not trying to changed it. But we know your point of view already, I don't think it is necessary to remind us until 2014.

Ferrari has decided to go for Pull-rod in front, so less drop this discussion and move on.

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Redragon wrote: ...
Ferrari has decided to go for Pull-rod in front, so less drop this discussion and move on.
That is by no means your call and I believe that you should seriously consider your menbership if you think otherwise.

Besides, there are obviously other members than myself who consider said topic still interesting.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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Teechnical
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Joined: 23 Apr 2012, 12:38

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Would the new rear diffuser and beam wing shape affect the car enough to give it a tenth or two?
"We have a new toy" - Fernando Alonso.

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amouzouris
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Joined: 14 Feb 2011, 20:21

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Teechnical wrote:Would the new rear diffuser and beam wing shape affect the car enough to give it a tenth or two?
is suppose it would give at least a tenth...as the central part is now detached and sits in 'clean' air now it can make much more downforce...with this you can also reduce a bit the AoA of the RW and gain a bit of top speed!

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Redragon
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Joined: 24 May 2011, 12:23

Re: Ferrari F2012

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xpensive wrote:
Redragon wrote: ...
Ferrari has decided to go for Pull-rod in front, so less drop this discussion and move on.
That is by no means your call and I believe that you should seriously consider your menbership if you think otherwise.

Besides, there are obviously other members than myself who consider said topic still interesting.
Ok let's carry on, brining every single time the pull-rod front suspension topic. I am considering my menbership just because it is too predictable this forum and boring. What ever happens in Monaco, good result or not from Ferrari this would be your argument, if good result, it could have been better if they would have used push-rod. If it is bad result, I told you it is because of Pull-rod and bla, bla, bla...

I also have an opinion. I don't think it is necessary that you remind us the Pull-rod topic, we know. We have move on and be interested on other developments and parts that Ferrari are brining on. I am not an engenier but if I was it is as much interesting how they are developing a car that it is different than the rest on that area, working or not.

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Well said. If it wasn't working then they would have replaced it.

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Ferrari F2012

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amouzouris wrote:
Teechnical wrote:Would the new rear diffuser and beam wing shape affect the car enough to give it a tenth or two?
is suppose it would give at least a tenth...as the central part is now detached and sits in 'clean' air now it can make much more downforce...with this you can also reduce a bit the AoA of the RW and gain a bit of top speed!
Good drawings Z. It should also be noted the actual shape of the beam wing has been changed too. It's now more "twisty" whereas the old one was flat & straight.

I still cannot find ANY clear up close pictures of the new rear brake duct fins. From what I can see the top of the fins are similar to Red Bull and at the front the duct is low and there's the one element that is at an angle where it looks like it's deflecting/directing air flow downwards. I just wish I could get some good up close detailed shots. :evil:

Obviously the car still has work to do, needs more updates but I think sector 3 in Montmelo showed we've have improved significantly the low speed traction & grip issues. We were amongst the fastest all weekend. Even on low fuel. Hopefully new updates will improve this even further.

Gary Anderson is still on about the vertical radiators and/or about how the flow from them exits. I'm curious to see if we will change the radiator layout or if we will change the outlet to a more conventional style. Possibly with the new Engine cover we saw in Malaysia although it would be modified now.

I also don't think Ferrari need to pursue DDRS. I think it's a waste of time and would take away from more fruitful development. I don't think it gives a large enough advantage. I do expect to possibly see a revised exhaust possibly. But maybe not as Fernando said they shouldn't waste time on it, there are more important things. I think he's probably echoing the sentiment of the development team.


X those pull-rods were working great in Spain. :p I was proud. :D

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Any ideas on what the heck this is?

Image

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elFranZ
15
Joined: 27 Mar 2012, 14:00

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Crucial_Xtreme wrote:Any ideas on what the heck this is?

https://p.twimg.com/AtLo6ZnCAAM_FSZ.jpg
LOL, I'm struggling too :D

Nando
Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Ferrari F2012

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xpensive wrote:
Redragon wrote: ...
Ferrari has decided to go for Pull-rod in front, so less drop this discussion and move on.
That is by no means your call and I believe that you should seriously consider your menbership if you think otherwise.

Besides, there are obviously other members than myself who consider said topic still interesting.
...and that´s your call?
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Nando wrote:
xpensive wrote:
Redragon wrote: ...
Ferrari has decided to go for Pull-rod in front, so less drop this discussion and move on.
That is by no means your call and I believe that you should seriously consider your menbership if you think otherwise.

Besides, there are obviously other members than myself who consider said topic still interesting.
...and that´s your call?

Let's not litter this thread with garbage mate. X is entitled to his opinion and is free to discuss it. I don't agree with him and I think he's dead wrong about the pull rod front suspension. But he has every right to post that he thinks it's a problem. It's no big deal, we all have our opinions.

Now everyone can we get back to the car and away from dead horses? :)

beelsebob
beelsebob
85
Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Nando wrote:
xpensive wrote:
Redragon wrote: ...
Ferrari has decided to go for Pull-rod in front, so less drop this discussion and move on.
That is by no means your call and I believe that you should seriously consider your menbership if you think otherwise.

Besides, there are obviously other members than myself who consider said topic still interesting.
...and that´s your call?
The point being that it's fair enough to say "I'm not interested" and walk away, but it's not fine to say "I'm not interested, you can't have this discussion any more."

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Postmoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012, 16:57

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Nando wrote:
xpensive wrote:
Redragon wrote: ...
Ferrari has decided to go for Pull-rod in front, so less drop this discussion and move on.
That is by no means your call and I believe that you should seriously consider your menbership if you think otherwise.

Besides, there are obviously other members than myself who consider said topic still interesting.
...and that´s your call?
Yes, because as it happens with front pull-rods, Redragon membership simply doesn't look well. Just imagine how it would be if he had a more conventional push-rod membership...

Ok, I'm stopping, but please... this is so absurd. I'm imagining people praying for a massive suspension failure after the tunnel... we shouldn't be so personally related to our own opinions. We need to take ourselves less seriously.