Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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SeijaKessen
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Joined: 08 Jan 2012, 21:34
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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This is still one of the tougher topics for me because I am on record as saying we need more risk involved with the tracks nowadays. I do not want to see drivers killed, but I do want to see them punished for making bad decisions.

While Spa is a fantastic track, over the past decade, the track has been slowly ruined by this idiot push for giant tarmac runoff areas. It's really easy to push a car when the worst that happens is you wind up on more tarmac outside of the lines.

Even some of the drivers have turned into sissies...look at Petrov crying about the proximity of the walls in Canada.

I mean really?

This is what it has come to?

I think he whined about Mugello too when they were testing there.

People who did not see F1 when things were less safe are actually missing out. People want better tracks, yet the sad thing is a lot of the better tracks don't conform to safety as required by the FIA. I hope to god F1 never goes back to say Brand's Hatch because it would turn into another sterile circuit. On the flipside, Imola was ruined completely by all of the changes. The back half of the track from the Tossa up to the Piratella, and from the end of the Acque Minerali to the Rivazza are still the same. The Variante Bassa sucks now. The starting grid was changed completely, the Tamburello is gone, and the Villeneuve is awful. Watching a motorcycle race there earlier in the year was just blah. The track lost a lot of it's personality.

The reason we love certain tracks as much as we do is because they have personality. When the tracks are changed in the name of safety, you start to kill off why people loved the track. It's like performing a lobotomy on a person.

I still feel like they should run a historic race before Spa where they run the original circuit through the towns, and give all the drivers on the grid vintage F1 cars. We'll see who really has balls. I bet Maldonado doesn't try to divebomb someone if it means he might find himself wrapped around a tree.

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Mr Alcatraz
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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Blue fellow wrote:I don't like the number of fastest lap times that are from nearly a decade ago
Nearly a decade ago they were driving 3l V10 engines without rev limits that produced very close to the 1000hp . These were abandoned for cost reasons as much as safety.
Those who believe in telekinetics raise my hand

AlpineF1
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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nobody likes to see a driver get hurt but the risk of injury is part of the sport and if the driver is willing to die for his passion you cant do much about it....but the safety march has got way out of hand just because one driver has a fit because he might scratch his paint on a wall or kerb doesnt mean the other drivers feel that way its a sensetive topic and he could've put it better but in a way i agree with him drivers arent as passionate as they were 20 - 10 years ago.... :?
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RB7ate9
RB7ate9
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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Based on reading the quote (probably far out of context from the rest of a longer statement), I cannot agree with the notion that F1 is "too safe". As long as F1 is still an open-wheeled racing series where drivers can face catastrophic accidents, there needs to be technological standards that will allow them to walk away from it in a huff (i.e. Webber 2010) rather than a helicopter with a sheet draped over.

And besides, what is making F1 "too safe"? That is the real matter for discussion. The regulations on chassis? Do we really need to go to weight-saving paper-thin carbon fiber shells that transfer ALL the force to the driver? No. Of course not. The regulations on the seats (that can be removed with the driver for easier transfer), harnesses, fire extinguishers, and durable fuel tanks? No. Those things keep the driver alive when the worst comes to worst. Those can't be compromised no matter the cost in money nor performance.

Run-off areas? Removing "dangerous" sections of track? Stewards rulings? Safety cars? Penalties? Car performance (i.e. maximum speed and DF levels)? Those are the areas that should be of concern where timidity in the face of an inherently dangerous sport compromises between the limit of performance and safety.

It staggers belief that people who say F1 is too safe and there needs to be more danger complain about how drivers these days are willing to make MORE risks BECAUSE it's too safe. Is F1 riskier now? more dangerous then? if there's more risk now then does that mean their MORE willing to be on the limit now? WHAT IS IT? Do you want to go back to the days where "smooth" mattered more than the "hard brake and turn" that drivers do now because of downforce levels and caution for the tree at the next apex mattered more than overtaking?

There was a video posted awhile ago with Jackie Stewart explaining how he went around Monaco compared to the other drivers. What he explained emphasized smoothness over jittery hard braking because of the limited levels of grip. People commenting on it were bemoaning his slow-is-smooth-smooth-is-fast style saying that the grip levels now allow faster and harder racing.

So which is it? What is it that you want? Obviously there's no going back from the essential safety regulations that are built into the homogulated chassis. So what is it ACTUALLY that makes F1 too safe? Because saying that F1 is too safe if a driver has a good chance from walking away from an accident cheapens their life and is a step back from encouraging them to approach the limit.

If it's a matter of drivers being "pansies" then think: "Gosh, why would they be like that?" Because they're part of a team, a multi-million dollar outfit that depends on points, finishes, and not damaging dozen-thousand (insert currency here) parts that a dozen people back at the factory put together. They don't want to risk damaging their vehicle because it's not just theirs, it belongs to the several hundred workers depending on them. People complain about reserved drivers, but then bash Maldonaldo for pushing "too" hard against Alonso in Australia. WHICH IS IT? The nature of the sport has changed, and it will continue to change, it's just a matter of how we wish it to change. Before, you could buy yourself a previous season F1 car and go to town the following season. Now, if you aren't within 3s of pole despite building your own car from the ground up, you get mocked (HRT, Marussia, and even Caterham). "I want to see new teams; why are the backmarkers soooo slow?"

Instead of thinking in terms of putting drivers in bathtubs of fuel "just like the good ol' days", think of what it is that you want in terms of actual racing, not nostalgia.

Sorry for the long post, but the vacillation in hypocrisy (F1 is too safe; they're never on the limit. F1 is too safe; they can just push the limit because there's no consequences) is grating.

jdlive
jdlive
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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Like I've been saying all along! Not willing to die, take on another sport, chess for instance.
"There is a credit card with the Ferrari logo, issued by Santander, which gives the scuderia a % of purchases made with the card...

I would guess that such a serious amount of money would allow them to ignore the constant complains of a car that was nowhere near as bad as their #1 driver tried to sell throughout the season.

Heck, a car on which Massa finishes in the podium or has to lift so that his teammate finishes ahead (As we saw often in the final races of the year) is, by no means, a "bad" car."

jdlive
jdlive
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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Belatti wrote:I agree to have a sport with safety measures, like we have got today. However, I dont agree to change rulebooks every year to cut performance (and thus speed) in the name of safety. F1 should be lapping 10 secods faster nowadays. Let the cars and tracks be safe, let the speed be dangerous.
I agree entirely, would be a great idea!
"There is a credit card with the Ferrari logo, issued by Santander, which gives the scuderia a % of purchases made with the card...

I would guess that such a serious amount of money would allow them to ignore the constant complains of a car that was nowhere near as bad as their #1 driver tried to sell throughout the season.

Heck, a car on which Massa finishes in the podium or has to lift so that his teammate finishes ahead (As we saw often in the final races of the year) is, by no means, a "bad" car."

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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Downhill at Hahnenkamm or Evil Knievel over 20 burning wrecks without the risk, who would watch that?
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RB7ate9
RB7ate9
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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xpensive wrote:Downhill at Hahnenkamm or Evil Knievel over 20 burning wrecks without the risk, who would watch that?
I would like to think that Formula 1 is different from an Evil Knievel show.

thearmofbarlow
thearmofbarlow
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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SeijaKessen wrote:
Even some of the drivers have turned into sissies...look at Petrov crying about the proximity of the walls in Canada.
In my experience Russians come in two varieties. Those that whine about absolutely everything in the known universe, and those that wouldn't acknowledge that they were getting gored by a rampaging bull elephant. :lol:

jdlive
jdlive
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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thearmofbarlow wrote:
SeijaKessen wrote:
Even some of the drivers have turned into sissies...look at Petrov crying about the proximity of the walls in Canada.
In my experience Russians come in two varieties. Those that whine about absolutely everything in the known universe, and those that wouldn't acknowledge that they were getting gored by a rampaging bull elephant. :lol:
:mrgreen:
"There is a credit card with the Ferrari logo, issued by Santander, which gives the scuderia a % of purchases made with the card...

I would guess that such a serious amount of money would allow them to ignore the constant complains of a car that was nowhere near as bad as their #1 driver tried to sell throughout the season.

Heck, a car on which Massa finishes in the podium or has to lift so that his teammate finishes ahead (As we saw often in the final races of the year) is, by no means, a "bad" car."

zyphro
zyphro
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Joined: 02 May 2012, 16:33

Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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Moss... sigh. Had enough of this guy, especially his persistent Schumi bashing.

Would someone like to remind him: things have moved on? Safety is integral for the sport, unless he enjoys seeing people losing their lives?

zyphro
zyphro
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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vikram_d wrote:It's a silly statement from somebody like Moss.
Lol, really?

Moss speaks a load of bull shine. Seems very bitter in his old age.

element
element
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Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 21:44
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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That's something you only say when you are 82 and you made it trough a dangerous live you miss now you are an elder.
Same bullshit as "a man has to fight a war to be a man", etc...

Not all people that ages become savvy.

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Shrieker
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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I respectfully disagree.
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rayden
rayden
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Re: Moss: F1 no longer fun with no risk to life and limb

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meh, this kind of mind set works for the isle of man.

don't see why people are getting upset.
i don't agree with him, but it's not an outrageous point of view.