Formula One In 5 Years.

[zeph]

I'd say these plans are going to be postponed.
https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/1/005 ... ecc8a3.jpg

I don't mean to turn this into a political debate, but it remains to be seen how long they can keep the prices that low. I think it is 50/50 before they go back up to more sustainable levels before the end of the year.

[langwadt]

I'd say these plans are going to be postponed.
https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/1/005 ... ecc8a3.jpg

I don't mean to turn this into a political debate, but it remains to be seen how long they can keep the prices that low. I think it is 50/50 before they go back up to more sustainable levels before the end of the year.

afaiu the Saudis can make a barrel of oil all inclusive for ~$7, they can afford to kill of the competition and discourage anyone from investing in alternatives

[Tim.Wright]

Constant torque does not negate the requirement for a gear box. If you look at the traction vs velocity "requirements" of a vehicle you will see that neither electric nor ICE powertrains can provide this without a gear box.

.............................................................................

So even a Tesla S motor with 600Nm needs a multiplication of 6 to get the right low speed torque at the wheels. With this multiplication, the motor then needs to be capable of 11k rpm to reach a top speed of circa 250km/h.

The Tesla Model S has a single-speed fixed gear with 9.73:1 reduction ratio.
http://www.teslamotors.com/support/mode ... ifications

Interesting, but further digging reveals that this decision has limited them to a severely castrated top speed of 200km/h. With 400hp, it should be able to reach well over 300km/h.

[ScottB]

I think the sport is at a crossroads. There's obviously a faction of the fanbase that daydreams about ditching the 'green' technology, and return to big V12s and the like. Such a move would no doubt be very popular among these people, but how would it play to the mainstream?

A failure to properly market the current Formula is a big issue, instead of moaning about noise, Bernie, if he was doing his job right, would have been crowing about the impressive technology involved, while it's obviously very popular to decry 'green' endeavours, like it or not, it's here to stay, and with even Mclaren and Ferrari pushing hybrid propulsion systems, and the age of the V12 in roadcars coming to an end, making F1 seem 'archaic' next to road going cars is not a good way to go.

For me, F1 should be the pinnacle of technology, the fastest, most advanced motorsport series. I would like to see the V6 Turbos remain, but the hybrid systems be deregulated. If we want more power, let's get it from there. F1 can still be fast, while being on the bleeding edge of technology. Having a bunch of cars using old engine tech, with regs intended to limit every possible bit of ingenuity might please the diehards for awhile, but F1 needs millions watching to keep it going. It can appeal to both, and it needs to.

[zeph]

Constant torque does not negate the requirement for a gear box. If you look at the traction vs velocity "requirements" of a vehicle you will see that neither electric nor ICE powertrains can provide this without a gear box.

.............................................................................

So even a Tesla S motor with 600Nm needs a multiplication of 6 to get the right low speed torque at the wheels. With this multiplication, the motor then needs to be capable of 11k rpm to reach a top speed of circa 250km/h.

The Tesla Model S has a single-speed fixed gear with 9.73:1 reduction ratio.
http://www.teslamotors.com/support/mode ... ifications

Interesting, but further digging reveals that this decision has limited them to a severely castrated top speed of 200km/h. With 400hp, it should be able to reach well over 300km/h.

A track car, yes, a road car? When are you ever going to go more than 200km/h on public roads? Where is that even legal (other than a few stretches on the autobahn)? Seems like a sensible design decision to me, reduce complexity (one less thing that can break) as 200+ km/h is mostly for bragging rights only.

Bigger picture: even when gearing is desirable, you would no longer need a 7 or 8 speed. 2 or 3 would probably do just fine. Those insanely large gearboxes we have today are primarily there to compensate for the ICE's inherent inadequacies.

[MOWOG]

afaiu the Saudis can make a barrel of oil all inclusive for ~$7, they can afford to kill of the competition and discourage anyone from investing in alternatives

And that is precisely what they intend to do, Langadt. And then.......

[rjsa]

afaiu the Saudis can make a barrel of oil all inclusive for ~$7, they can afford to kill of the competition and discourage anyone from investing in alternatives

And that is precisely what they intend to do, Langadt. And then.......

The damage is done. The rest of the world can produce it's own oil below $100. Opec can't play that game any longer.

[Andres125sx]

Constant torque does not negate the requirement for a gear box. If you look at the traction vs velocity "requirements" of a vehicle you will see that neither electric nor ICE powertrains can provide this without a gear box.

.............................................................................

So even a Tesla S motor with 600Nm needs a multiplication of 6 to get the right low speed torque at the wheels. With this multiplication, the motor then needs to be capable of 11k rpm to reach a top speed of circa 250km/h.

The Tesla Model S has a single-speed fixed gear with 9.73:1 reduction ratio.
http://www.teslamotors.com/support/mode ... ifications

Interesting, but further digging reveals that this decision has limited them to a severely castrated top speed of 200km/h. With 400hp, it should be able to reach well over 300km/h.

This has limited them to a top speed of 200km/h?

Or this has free them of using a gearbox?

How many people will bother about a top speed of just 200km/h (few if any, people looking for a car that fast will not buy a EV today), and how many people will enjoy a cheaper and more simple car with even better reliability and lower maintenance?

So even a fully electric car with a powerfull motor can get rid of using a gearbox to make it even more reliable and maintenance free, wich was my point. Then anyone who want to build a race car or simply a sport car with very good perfomance can use a gearbox to make it faster (just with 2-3 speeds as Zeph pointed out), but those who prefer a simple and reliable design can go for a gearbox free design and own a car with a reliability level unknown today

[Moose]

How many people will bother about a top speed of just 200km/h (few if any, people looking for a car that fast will not buy a EV today), and how many people will enjoy a cheaper and more simple car with even better reliability and lower maintenance?

Indeed, far more people give a --- about the 3.2 second 0-60 than about being able to do a speed that they'll never achieve on a public road.

[langwadt]

afaiu the Saudis can make a barrel of oil all inclusive for ~$7, they can afford to kill of the competition and discourage anyone from investing in alternatives

And that is precisely what they intend to do, Langadt. And then.......

The damage is done. The rest of the world can produce it's own oil below $100. Opec can't play that game any longer.

lots of places can produce oil (and gas) that is profitable if the price is $100, but knowing that Saudis can dump the price when they want to will surely make someone twice before they invest a few 100 millions in an offshore oil rig, that is cost another few 100 millions to run and needs a price of $50 just to break even

[rjsa]

And that is precisely what they intend to do, Langadt. And then.......

The damage is done. The rest of the world can produce it's own oil below $100. Opec can't play that game any longer.

lots of places can produce oil (and gas) that is profitable if the price is $100, but knowing that Saudis can dump the price when they want to will surely make someone twice before they invest a few 100 millions in an offshore oil rig, that is cost another few 100 millions to run and needs a price of $50 just to break even

There are methods to prevent that from happening in international trade. If the Saudis really start roller coasting prices they'll be gifted with anti dumping taxing sooner than later and the major oil consuming/producing countries will start to dictate at what price oil can cross their borders.

Just imagine: the anti-terror local oil. You buy the U.S. shale oil, we don't send monies to terror financing sheikhs.

And I put$100, which is high. A lot can be done under $75 or even closer to $50 like you said. Peak oils is no more.