Ferrari Project 677 Speculation Thread

[bananapeel23]

There is no "turn it up" option available for Ferrati or they would have taken it with Leclerc in Abu Dhabi. The fact he gained 11 positions on lap 1 is not something they could expect or predict

Leclerc’s engine was so old and worn down by Abu Dhabi that it barely even worked. Even if they had better engine modes available they wouldn’t have been able to use them since the engine was already on the verge of failing. (Which is why he had to take penalties)

Leclerc was already losing several tenths per lap to Sainz in Las Vegas due to a lack of engine power.

You can ”turn up” a fresh engine by picking a higher engine mode before it gets locked in Q1. But if the engine can’t cope with such an engine mode out of reliability concerns you have to live with poor performance.

Also I consider it unlikely that there will be any significant reliability upgrades for 2025. The engine is already great and I don’t think Ferrari is willing to invest the money required to make the 2022 engine modes work reliably when there is an engine development budget cap in place.

[nico5]

There is no "turn it up" option available for Ferrati or they would have taken it with Leclerc in Abu Dhabi. The fact he gained 11 positions on lap 1 is not something they could expect or predict

Leclerc’s engine was so old and worn down by Abu Dhabi that it barely even worked. Even if they had better engine modes available they wouldn’t have been able to use them since the engine was already on the verge of failing. (Which is why he had to take penalties)

Leclerc was already losing several tenths per lap to Sainz in Las Vegas due to a lack of engine power.

You can ”turn up” a fresh engine by picking a higher engine mode before it gets locked in Q1. But if the engine can’t cope with such an engine mode out of reliability concerns you have to live with poor performance.

Also I consider it unlikely that there will be any significant reliability upgrades for 2025. The engine is already great and I don’t think Ferrari is willing to invest the money required to make the 2022 engine modes work reliably when there is an engine development budget cap in place.

Pretty obvious I meant changing to a brand new engine. If that meant they could get more than the standard new-engine improvement, they would have certainly done it. Instead, no such extra power mode exists (i.e. been tuned, tested etc.)

[bananapeel23]

Pretty obvious I meant changing to a brand new engine. If that meant they could get more than the standard new-engine improvement, they would have certainly done it. Instead, no such extra power mode exists (i.e. been tuned, tested etc.)

It's very well known that such engine modes do very much exist. Hell, they were used constantly before party modes were banned.

Mercedes is well known to have had different engine modes available, but wouldn't use them out of reliability concerns, yet both Hamilton and Rosberg would enable them anyway to get the upper hand. Obviously you can't revise your engine mode upwards after Q1 these days, so you can't do such things. You have to pick an engine mode that you're confident will last the race distance.

Like yes, they could've broken parc ferme and given him a new engine after the qualifying disaster, but that would mean a pitlane start. In hindsight they probably should've given him a fully new engien before quali, but they probably expected him to start around p13 and preferred that over p20 with a new engine.

So their choice was p13 and a slow engine or p20 and a really fast one, which turned into p19(?) and a slow engine or pitlane and a really fast engine. You probably still take the former if the difference isn't something like half a second per lap. The preference for pitlane starts before the end of the season is because you get to carry the advantage of an extra engine with you for the rest of the season, but you get no such advantage in the last race.

[nico5]

Pretty obvious I meant changing to a brand new engine. If that meant they could get more than the standard new-engine improvement, they would have certainly done it. Instead, no such extra power mode exists (i.e. been tuned, tested etc.)

It's very well known that such engine modes do very much exist. Hell, they were used constantly before party modes were banned.

Mate, you don't need to tell me roses are red...
Since the one-mode policy nobody has been developing Quali modes anymore hence they probably don't have any for current-spec engines.

[bananapeel23]

Pretty obvious I meant changing to a brand new engine. If that meant they could get more than the standard new-engine improvement, they would have certainly done it. Instead, no such extra power mode exists (i.e. been tuned, tested etc.)

It's very well known that such engine modes do very much exist. Hell, they were used constantly before party modes were banned.

Mate, you don't need to tell me roses are red...
Since the one-mode policy nobody has been developing Quali modes anymore hence they probably don't have any for current-spec engines.

Obviously they won’t have quali modes, but they almost certainly have ”1 race” modes that they are confident will last a race distance, but wear out the engine so fast that it’s usually not worth using.

Mercedes were very clearly developing such engine modes in 2021 with all the penalties Bottas ended up taking, only for Hamilton to later get a rock-solid super engine for the last few races.

[Sevach]

It's very well known that such engine modes do very much exist. Hell, they were used constantly before party modes were banned.

Mate, you don't need to tell me roses are red...
Since the one-mode policy nobody has been developing Quali modes anymore hence they probably don't have any for current-spec engines.

Obviously they won’t have quali modes, but they almost certainly have ”1 race” modes that they are confident will last a race distance, but wear out the engine so fast that it’s usually not worth using.

Mercedes were very clearly developing such engine modes in 2021 with all the penalties Bottas ended up taking, only for Hamilton to later get a rock-solid super engine for the last few races.

Suppousedly Ferrari doesn't have those, when Leclerc took a penalty in Abu Dhabi people expected him to do a Hamilton-21, but Ferrari didn't change the whole PU, just the component that had problems, and their reasoning was the new engine will perform the same.

Even after he struggled in qualy and it meant he was going to be last anyway, they stuck with the plan.

[dialtone]

One day maybe this myth will end, like the magic DRS from RedBull if we’re lucky.

[miket]

Suppousedly Ferrari doesn't have those, when Leclerc took a penalty in Abu Dhabi people expected him to do a Hamilton-21, but Ferrari didn't change the whole PU, just the component that had problems, and their reasoning was the new engine will perform the same.

Even after he struggled in qualy and it meant he was going to be last anyway, they stuck with the plan.

Yes, this was what fred said in regards to that question at the time : “A new engine would give us an advantage, but not as much as one might think. The current power unit isn’t excessively worn, so we need to weigh everything carefully.”

[f1316]

Suppousedly Ferrari doesn't have those, when Leclerc took a penalty in Abu Dhabi people expected him to do a Hamilton-21, but Ferrari didn't change the whole PU, just the component that had problems, and their reasoning was the new engine will perform the same.

Even after he struggled in qualy and it meant he was going to be last anyway, they stuck with the plan.

Yes, this was what fred said in regards to that question at the time : “A new engine would give us an advantage, but not as much as one might think. The current power unit isn’t excessively worn, so we need to weigh everything carefully.”

So he actually said there is an advantage, just not a big one. Given they’d just spent money changing the floor construction from Qatar - which impacted budget - it may well be that this was a cost cap based calculation rather than a performance based one.

[the EDGE]

Suppousedly Ferrari doesn't have those, when Leclerc took a penalty in Abu Dhabi people expected him to do a Hamilton-21, but Ferrari didn't change the whole PU, just the component that had problems, and their reasoning was the new engine will perform the same.

Even after he struggled in qualy and it meant he was going to be last anyway, they stuck with the plan.

Yes, this was what fred said in regards to that question at the time : “A new engine would give us an advantage, but not as much as one might think. The current power unit isn’t excessively worn, so we need to weigh everything carefully.”

So he actually said there is an advantage, just not a big one. Given they’d just spent money changing the floor construction from Qatar - which impacted budget - it may well be that this was a cost cap based calculation rather than a performance based one.

The cost of engines are not included in the F1 budget cap, however many you burn through, for whatever reason

[itAintPeter]

Yes, this was what fred said in regards to that question at the time : “A new engine would give us an advantage, but not as much as one might think. The current power unit isn’t excessively worn, so we need to weigh everything carefully.”

So he actually said there is an advantage, just not a big one. Given they’d just spent money changing the floor construction from Qatar - which impacted budget - it may well be that this was a cost cap based calculation rather than a performance based one.

The cost of engines are not included in the F1 budget cap, however many you burn through, for whatever reason

I'm pretty sure that engines are included in the budget cap, their development is not.

[Emag]

Amongst the photos of Lewis meeting the team today, this one was also shared in the Formula 1 Instagram post :



Any chance this could be the 2025 car?
Those look like vortex generators at the top of the sidepod. You have to go back to the SF-21 to find the last Ferrari which had them and I don't see a reason why this random mechanic would be working on a bare SF-21 the day Lewis visited the factory.

I double checked to see if vortex generators there are legal on the current regs and I think they are because Sauber had them last year.

If it is indeed the 2025 car, it's interesting because you can deduce radiator placement and with it, a rough idea of the sidepod shape.
Shape of the airbox also looks interesting.

[the EDGE]

Amongst the photos of Lewis meeting the team today, this one was also shared in the Formula 1 Instagram post :

https://i.imgur.com/aytkqeW.png

Any chance this could be the 2025 car?
Those look like vortex generators at the top of the sidepod. You have to go back to the SF-21 to find the last Ferrari which had them and I don't see a reason why this random mechanic would be working on a bare SF-21 the day Lewis visited the factory.

I double checked to see if vortex generators there are legal on the current regs and I think they are because Sauber had them last year.

If it is indeed the 2025 car, it's interesting because you can deduce radiator placement and with it, a rough idea of the sidepod shape.
Shape of the airbox also looks interesting.

Isn’t Lewis driving the SF-21 soon, due to the new limitations on driving cars from 2022-24?

[pursue_one's]

Amongst the photos of Lewis meeting the team today, this one was also shared in the Formula 1 Instagram post :

https://i.imgur.com/aytkqeW.png

Any chance this could be the 2025 car?
Those look like vortex generators at the top of the sidepod. You have to go back to the SF-21 to find the last Ferrari which had them and I don't see a reason why this random mechanic would be working on a bare SF-21 the day Lewis visited the factory.

I double checked to see if vortex generators there are legal on the current regs and I think they are because Sauber had them last year.

If it is indeed the 2025 car, it's interesting because you can deduce radiator placement and with it, a rough idea of the sidepod shape.
Shape of the airbox also looks interesting.

Looks like SF-23

[Emag]

Amongst the photos of Lewis meeting the team today, this one was also shared in the Formula 1 Instagram post :

https://i.imgur.com/aytkqeW.png

Any chance this could be the 2025 car?
Those look like vortex generators at the top of the sidepod. You have to go back to the SF-21 to find the last Ferrari which had them and I don't see a reason why this random mechanic would be working on a bare SF-21 the day Lewis visited the factory.

I double checked to see if vortex generators there are legal on the current regs and I think they are because Sauber had them last year.

If it is indeed the 2025 car, it's interesting because you can deduce radiator placement and with it, a rough idea of the sidepod shape.
Shape of the airbox also looks interesting.

Looks like SF-23

https://i.imgur.com/8FYXKtU.jpeg

Ah, somehow I missed this. Don't know which image I checked or maybe even forgot SF23 existed for a moment

It's probably the SF23 then. I think the layout checks out as well :