2012 British GP - Silverstone Circuit

[Pandabeer]

sup guys,

i didn't read all thirty pages, but i'm wondering about the pirelli tyres in 2012.. it was not the first race-weekend i'm wondering about the tyres. How come that one team would like to use 3x the hard compound rather then using 2x hard and 1x soft. (the allegedly faster compound) if you look at this image:



Alonso on fresh soft-tyres could only use 1 lap (0,5s) to extend his gap to Webber who was on older hard-tyres. The other remaining laps, Alonso only lost time against Webber. How is this even possible? It's unpleasant to watch Alonso can't do anything against Webber because of the fricking tyres doens't work. No doubt Webber did a great job the whole weekend but i don't get it. It's like "the soft-compound doesn't work on our car, let's just take the hard-compound.. it'll last longer and will be faster". I'm really not sure if Pirelli was expecting the current situation, because it doens't feel right.

Another example is Hulkenberg, i currently don't know if he set his fastest lap-time on his second stint with hard tyres or in this first lap with fresh new soft-tyres on his last stint. Either way is a bit odd. How come he set his fastest lap-time on old hard-tyres with a fair amount of fuel and couldn't get a faster time with lower fuel and soft-tyres. Or maybe he was stuck in traffic the last 17 laps, i'm not sure about it right now.

[bhall]

i didn't read all thirty pages, but i'm wondering about the pirelli tyres in 2012.

[...]

As much as it's fun to blame the tires, you can't really do that this time.

The torrential rain over the weekend meant the track was effectively green for the race, i.e. not rubbered-in. Tires don't like that. Combine that with the fact that Silverstone was the first race since Spain to have a full step between the two tire compounds, and there was really no way the softer tires were going to have any sort of meaningful durability.

[Pandabeer]

You're right, the track mostly was green, i didn't thought of this tbh. But still, the prime-tyres were so much faster that weekend. For me it seemed like there was no need to use both compounds this weekend, just that, when using the option-tyres you will lose time and maybe lose positions.

[zeph]

Nice to see The Webster bag no.2 before das wunderkind

I fear that Alonso's excellent form will all be for naught with these hints of RBR returning to dominance. I'm just a layman enthusiast, but to me it appears he is fighting a losing battle.

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

Easy to speak after the race but when i see Massa last stint, i think it was better for Alonso to start with the soft. Massa was faster than both RBR in the last stint, in fact, only Raikkonen and Grosjean was faster than him.

[ankitshah]

What is the primary mechanism of heating up the tires? Is it slippage and frictional heating or is it tire block movement due to lateral forces in cornering.

If its the latter then maybe the lack of pace for Alonso can be explained. In the earlier laps the slower cornering speeds mean that the lateral forces are lower and hence less heat and less degradation. In the final laps on lighter cars and highest cornering speeds meant that Alonso degraded the tires very fast.

Also Massas pace in first stint was pretty slow while he was on par on second and third stint. Meaning that the Ferraris setup inherently was using up the softs pretty quickly while it was using the hards slightly better than the RBRs.

Another inference that might be drawn was that the Ferraris would be running a higher downforce setup (higher lateral forces: better for hards cruel on softs) than the RBRs. A quick look at the top speeds justifies the assumption. Webber 310 kph. Alonso close to 300 kph in the traps. Might be skewed a bit by DRS usage though.

[raymondu999]

Webber was bottom of the qualifying speedtraps (everyone was not using DRS in qualifying) though.

Also, tyre degradation should be higher on higher fuel, because you're also moving more mass around.

[ankitshah]

Webber was bottom of the qualifying speedtraps (everyone was not using DRS in qualifying) though.

Also, tyre degradation should be higher on higher fuel, because you're also moving more mass around.

More mass true but the velocity is lower. Cornering forces would depend on m*V^2 for the same radius of curvature. So a fractional reduction in velocity will have a greater effect than same fractional increase of mass. Also Massa was being slowed down by schumacher so wasnt quite at the grip limit. Seems as if the reasoning is going both ways. Looks like we need more data .

Do you have the exact values from quali speed traps? cos I was looking at race data only.

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

What is the primary mechanism of heating up the tires? Is it slippage and frictional heating or is it tire block movement due to lateral forces in cornering.

If its the latter then maybe the lack of pace for Alonso can be explained. In the earlier laps the slower cornering speeds mean that the lateral forces are lower and hence less heat and less degradation. In the final laps on lighter cars and highest cornering speeds meant that Alonso degraded the tires very fast.

Also Massas pace in first stint was pretty slow while he was on par on second and third stint. Meaning that the Ferraris setup inherently was using up the softs pretty quickly while it was using the hards slightly better than the RBRs.

Another inference that might be drawn was that the Ferraris would be running a higher downforce setup (higher lateral forces: better for hards cruel on softs) than the RBRs. A quick look at the top speeds justifies the assumption. Webber 310 kph. Alonso close to 300 kph in the traps. Might be skewed a bit by DRS usage though.

Massa was held up by Schumacher in his first stint. he was all over him and way faster.

[raymondu999]

Webber was bottom of the qualifying speedtraps (everyone was not using DRS in qualifying) though.

Also, tyre degradation should be higher on higher fuel, because you're also moving more mass around.

More mass true but the velocity is lower. Cornering forces would depend on m*V^2 for the same radius of curvature. So a fractional reduction in velocity will have a greater effect than same fractional increase of mass. Also Massa was being slowed down by schumacher so wasnt quite at the grip limit. Seems as if the reasoning is going both ways. Looks like we need more data .

Do you have the exact values from quali speed traps? cos I was looking at race data only.

There's no speedtrap in the race - just average sector speed.

[SiLo]

It's nice to see Mclaren topping the timesheets for something! Best stops of the grand prix, 1st and 4th fastest for Hamilton. At least he can't complain they have found same pace somewhere Maybe that's where all these so called 'upgrades' where?

[Steven]

Easy to speak after the race but when i see Massa last stint, i think it was better for Alonso to start with the soft. Massa was faster than both RBR in the last stint, in fact, only Raikkonen and Grosjean was faster than him.

True, but ahead of the race I thought Alonso's and Hamilton's strategy to do Hard-Hard-Soft would be the perfect one. My thinking (and perhaps also Ferrari's) was that towards the end of the race, the track would be more rubbered in if it remained dry, hence the soft tyre would be able to last longer, or at least postpone the graining stage. That I think proved not to be the case.

Having the softer tyre go slower and be less durable is indeed something strange, but I think it was about the same for everybody. McLaren realised this to put Hamilton on softs only for 8 laps, but that meant his hard stints were a little bit too long to be optimal.

We should also not forget that Alonso was likely to pull the gap to everybody else by being on the harder tyre. Webber recovered that when the situation reversed, and passing the Ferrari to me showed that the Red Bull is the better car. Even Vettel was close to Alonso towards the end, and he was running the entire race with a damaged front wing.

[miguelbento]

Hi guys,

Is there a rule that prevents a driver finishing the race by going through the pits?

Why didn't, for example, Raikkonen dive into the pits on the last lap? He would've cross the finishing line before Massa, promoting him to 4th. This happens because the new Silverstone pits have this peculiarity.

The same was possible last year, so I assume there is some kind of rule preventing this...


Cheers,
MB

[siskue2005]

Hi guys,

Is there a rule that prevents a driver finishing the race by going through the pits?

Why didn't, for example, Raikkonen dive into the pits on the last lap? He would've cross the finishing line before Massa, promoting him to 4th. This happens because the new Silverstone pits have this peculiarity.

The same was possible last year, so I assume there is some kind of rule preventing this...


Cheers,
MB

You can't finish a race in pitlane
Fia made sure no one copied the 1998 move by Schumy/ Brawn

[zyphro]

Fia made sure no one copied the 1998 move by Schumy/ Brawn

That was genius (at the time).