2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[AeroDynamic]

What are you on about...? Is this just because of the Abu Dhabi call? You're seeing ghosts here mate.

What part don't you understand? RBR are very competent at persuasive communication over the radio to the RD when it was allowed. The FIA has Annulée this from being possible now. Out of all the teams, I think RBR will feel this change the most.

Thin guage tyres, change of pit stop rules, new rules for flex tests?

Yes Mercedes is good at lobbying. Proven by the the pitstop rules last year, Flexi rear wing and the allowable flexi front wing. What about the mid season change in tire specs a few years back, which happend to suit Mercedes better.

What has the technical lobbying got to do with the persuasive communication to a race director with what happens in the race? Race director does not make technical rule changes, and all teams are still able to lobby and argue /demand from the FIA behind the scenes about the technical elements of the series.

The person involved was the same guy?

But there's been no change about the technical lobbying? the change that impacts the teams now is being able to lobby in-race. I say it again: this impact will be felt most by RBR it seems.

[Ryar]

What part don't you understand? RBR are very competent at persuasive communication over the radio to the RD when it was allowed. The FIA has Annulée this from being possible now. Out of all the teams, I think RBR will feel this change the most.







What has the technical lobbying got to do with the persuasive communication to a race director with what happens in the race? Race director does not make technical rule changes, and all teams are still able to lobby and argue /demand from the FIA behind the scenes about the technical elements of the series.

The person involved was the same guy?

But there's been no change about the technical lobbying? the change that impacts the teams now is being able to lobby in-race. I say it again: this impact will be felt most by RBR it seems.

It also takes away lobbying outside of the race too, so to speak and affects Mercedes the most.

[Curbstone]

What part don't you understand? RBR are very competent at persuasive communication over the radio to the RD when it was allowed. The FIA has Annulée this from being possible now. Out of all the teams, I think RBR will feel this change the most.

I don't understand how you can reasonably come to such a general conclusion that Red Bull was the best at lobying, looking at a single incident. If you wan't to make a reasonable statement, and draw conclusion like this, you should have some more examples.

[AeroDynamic]

The person involved was the same guy?

But there's been no change about the technical lobbying? the change that impacts the teams now is being able to lobby in-race. I say it again: this impact will be felt most by RBR it seems.

It also takes away lobbying outside of the race too, so to speak and affects Mercedes the most.

I don't know what you're on about there. The announcement is clear. the change is about lobbying in race. Technical lobbying is unchanged. No changes were announced about any contact 'outside of the race'

I don't understand how you can reasonably come to such a general conclusion, looking at a single incident. If you wan't to make a reasonable statement, and draw conclusion like this, you should have some more examples.

Feel free to look at YouTube compilations of radio communication by all teams and draw your own conclusions. For me it is clear.

[Curbstone]

Point me at the the one's where Red Bull were succesful.
I'll point you at Silverstone, where Red Bull were unsuccessful.

[AeroDynamic]

Point me at the the one's where Red Bull were succesful.
I'll point you at Silverstone, where Red Bull were unsuccessful.

Hmm, yes I agree they were very unsuccessful outside of the race in lobbying the stewards directly for a more severe punishment. For many, the racing incident was.. a racing incident. It was penalised. So, one could argue it was successful? Severe enough is too subjective. I would also like to note to you, that the FIA found RBR had inferred some very distasteful things to them. They probably overplayed their position.

If Mercedes is the best at lobbying outside of the race.. I would point to Brazil and suggest that being disqualified for the most marginal infringement from a damage wing, does not support your theory. That is the biggest occasion outside of the race, where they did not succeed and it could've cost them a crucial weekend result. It certainly cost them favourites for 3 points in the sprint which could've been critical in how Max's rival would race him wheel to wheel in the finale.

in comparison, outside of the race, Red Bull were very successful with persuading Masi to bring Sergio Perez back into the race in Belgium.

In Brazil, (and in general since 2019) 'Let them race' has been a philosophy campaigned by Red Bull heavily and was recycled in Brazil by Jonathan "That's all about letting them race" Michael did not refer it to the stewards.

Abu Dhabi goes without saying.

[organic]

There is an active FIA thread which may suit this discussion better

[JordanMugen]

Seeing a few sources talking about a shakedown by RB this afternoon with a camo car. Nothing concrete but this guy is reporting it and he's usually not too far off on RB stuff?

The car looks so much better with Red Bull instead of ByBit , oh well. I guess we will get used to it.

[jvh010]

So here it is, the new Bull in action at Silverstone filming days. First thing i notice is the small shark fin and by the look of the image a verry sharp front wing.

[langedweil]

Hmm ... there should be at least some pics circulating then by now?
If not, then it was surely pretty secret.

[organic]

Hmm ... there should be at least some pics circulating then by now?
If not, then it was surely pretty secret.

Check the rb18 speculation thread! some low definition pics of the car and a couple of terrible videos; we have some crumbs

[JordanMugen]

now who would have thought, at and rb with same concepts... im sure the other teams will love this...

The other teams are entitled to run a B-team if they want.

The abscene of B-teams from the manufacturer teams like Alpine and Mercedes is particularly conspicuous, and seems to cause no end of trouble with no place to place their junior (or not so junior in the case of De Vries & Vandoorne) drivers in F1. A 12-team grid with extra B-teams from Alpine and Mercedes would be most welcome indeed. The more the merrier, and it would be great to see a full 26-car grid. Having left it so late, they would now need to pay the $200m USD entry fee to setup a brand new B-team but that is what is and still seems like good value.

Now, with RB & AT using the same engine, gearbox and rear suspension, it is not so remarkable they would arrive at a similar solution -- not withstanding use of the same wind tunnel, even if the models are supposed to be hidden from the other team?

[AeroDynamic]

now who would have thought, at and rb with same concepts... im sure the other teams will love this...

The other teams are entitled to run a B-team if they want.

The abscene of B-teams from the manufacturer teams like Alpine and Mercedes is particularly conspicuous, and seems to cause no end of trouble with no place to place their junior (or not so junior in the case of De Vries & Vandoorne) drivers in F1.

They should do a lot more to get rid of the b team stuff in F1.

Its pathetic watching Marko orchestrate 4 team mates across two teams in a championship fight

[JordanMugen]

They should do a lot more to get rid of the b team stuff in F1.

AlphaTauri (i.e., Minardi) having solid funding is good for F1, and Piastri, Vandoorne and De Vries would more than welcome having a place to race F1 cars. The question, rather, is where is the Alpine B-team and where is the Mercedes B-team?

Ferrari and Mercedes have some pseudo B-teams but that means that Ferrari junior drives like Aitken still miss out as there is no proper Ferrari B-team.

More cars on the grid I say!

Besides AlphaTauri have only used the Red Bull wind tunnel for one season, it is quite different to HAAS and Aston Martin who have used the Ferrari and Mercedes wind tunnels for many seasons.

Its pathetic watching Marko orchestrate 4 team mates across two teams in a championship fight

That Mateschitz and his advisor Marko should be condemned rather than praised for having a high commitment to the Italian motorsport industry and junior F1 drivers is really bizarre. Mateschitz has ensured financial security for Minardi Grand Prix.

Where Red Bull acted and stepped-in, where were the actions of RenaultSport or Mercedes GP when teams like Manor GP or Caterham F1 faced insolvency?! Surely to act and save a Grand Prix team is the much better outcome!

Besides, isn't something like Mercedes Motorsport orchestrating 6 team mates across three teams in DTM far worse as far as B-teams and intra-team orders? Indeed the race leader from a different team slowed to a crawl from a 10-second lead to execute the intra-team order and swap positions. I don't recall Toro Rosso or AlphaTauri ever giving up a ten-second lead!

Far from B-teams that build their own chassis being a bad thing, and 18 cars on the grid with no AlphaTauri being better, the solution is really quite the opposite. Three more B-teams and 26 cars on the grid would be better! Especially for the likes of Piastri, Shwartzmann, Aitken, Pourchaire, De Vries etc.

[f1jcw]

now who would have thought, at and rb with same concepts... im sure the other teams will love this...

The other teams are entitled to run a B-team if they want.

The abscene of B-teams from the manufacturer teams like Alpine and Mercedes is particularly conspicuous, and seems to cause no end of trouble with no place to place their junior (or not so junior in the case of De Vries & Vandoorne) drivers in F1. A 12-team grid with extra B-teams from Alpine and Mercedes would be most welcome indeed. The more the merrier, and it would be great to see a full 26-car grid. Having left it so late, they would now need to pay the $200m USD entry fee to setup a brand new B-team but that is what is and still seems like good value.

Now, with RB & AT using the same engine, gearbox and rear suspension, it is not so remarkable they would arrive at a similar solution -- not withstanding use of the same wind tunnel, even if the models are supposed to be hidden from the other team?

You do know it will be against the rules to have duplicate car and also shared development