Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

[komninosm]

Imagine if Hamilton had done this pass on Massa or Vettel. People would not be so split and this thread would have been locked long ago. So consider yourselves lucky :^o

[andrew]

Imagine if Hamilton had done this pass on Massa or Vettel. People would not be so split and this thread would have been locked long ago. So consider yourselves lucky :^o

Would there have even been any penalty?

[The FOZ]

The rule regarding SC on the last lap is problematic.

The way it's worded now, it seems to say that when the last lap SC rule is to be invoked, the SC will enter the pit AFTER the last lap is complete...at least that's what I take "at the end of the lap" to mean...I'm saying that because it didn't enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap, rather, it entered before, the last lap SC rule shouldn't be applied.

As a matter of clarity, though, the rule should be altered so that if it is intended for the SC to be deployed through the end of the race, then either a) the SC should lead the race cars across the finish line, or b) Race control should announce the SC is going in, but the race is to finish under SC condition, and the yellows stay on through the end of the race.

Turnin the greens on and pulling the SC in before the end of the last lap both completely contradict the idea of the race ending under SC conditions.

[zenithbeach]

Would there have even been any penalty?

exactly! they wouldve praised him for his awesome driving instead. just like they always do

[Predator]

2009 Australian GP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekdNRjTU21g

Forward to 7:20. Same finish but yellows waving with SC boards. Also notice how everyone is cruising to the finish because they know yellows are evident.

[vall]

Safety car never crosses the finish line on the last lap! Read the regulations! The SC much get in in the last lap and all the cars finish without overtaking.....

Vall the lights went off to indicate the race would restart.
This is very evident by the green flags and lights that were flashing to indicate race conditions.
Ferrari moan, Ferrari get. This is pure politiking by Scuderia and it stinks of BS

Could you tell me when a race finishes under safety car?

Let me answer for you: when there is safety car during the last lap. Period.

[ringo]

Nobody seems to get the fact he had been driving for nearly an hour flat out. He would have been full of adrenaline. Its all very well to sit there watching a race saying "tut tut", but come on! Once your heart beat goes above 100 common sense goes out the window. He should be praised for not cursing his head off.

are you serious? full of adrenaline? what about vettel being told to slow down at the last race? did he throw a fit at his team like a little school girl? no, because hes one of the professional drivers.

seems to me hamilton is a spoilt little brat, i remember him mouthin off his team to even in interviews when his car wasnt that great. so ungrateful! this has nothing to do with adrenaline. hes just a douche with a huge ego.

Vettel threw a steering wheel before. He's not exactly a calm driver. Also doesn't seem to be able to keep his feelings in when his teammate does better. Doesn't even congratulate his teammate when they exit the cars in parc ferme. Vettel is not a good example.

Button is not boisterous but is very snide, he talks down the engineer's decisions to the press. You should read his comments after qualifying.

Lewis says what he likes because he has a close relationship with his engineers. He doesn't have to be formal with them, and neither do they to him. Funny the guy has a clean race, and some hami haters had to find something to criticize.

Lewis escapes cleanly, did well to save his brakes and tyres, got his points and his engineers are happy. He lives to be slammed another day.

[adam2007]

they took schumacher points of him the bastards (hill)

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Safety car never crosses the finish line on the last lap! Read the regulations! The SC much get in in the last lap and all the cars finish without overtaking.....

Vall the lights went off to indicate the race would restart.
This is very evident by the green flags and lights that were flashing to indicate race conditions.
Ferrari moan, Ferrari get. This is pure politiking by Scuderia and it stinks of BS

Could you tell me when a race finishes under safety car?

Let me answer for you: when there is safety car during the last lap. Period.

Vall I refer you to Predator's post

[komninosm]

Imagine if Hamilton had done this pass on Massa or Vettel. People would not be so split and this thread would have been locked long ago. So consider yourselves lucky :^o

Would there have even been any penalty?

Yeah, you're not biased at all... [-X
I'm fairly sure the punishment would have been the same, but the discussion here a lot more heated and it would lead to a lock.

Here's what a Schumi fan said in this thread: "Ferrari moan, Ferrari get. This is pure politiking by Scuderia and it stinks of BS"
Not to mention what Ferrari fans have said so far (various conspiracy theories and even cursing). But the thread has not devolved to strong bickering and locked because Hamilton wasn't involved. Ham-haters are pretty good at that it seems.

Back to my points though, nobody is answering my questions:
I dislike Ferrari and Schumacher and Alonso so I am objective according to some people's standards.
Some people suggested giving a place back instead of a drive through penalty. Is there a rule for that kind of penalty? There's been many cases in the past that a drive through seemed too harsh for, but there doesn't seem to be an alternative in the rules. Is there?
Was the track really clear at the final lap? They seemed to have trouble removing the second crashed car up to the second to last lap and what about clearing the debris? The green flags were a mistake then probably.
One final thing. Was Schumacher allowed to close up to Alonso so much before the SC line? I vaguely recall rules about keeping a distance to the car in front of you. When Schumacher crossed the white line, his front wing was at Alonso's wheel level. But then again that is not the justification the Stewards gave. They didn't say he started his passing manoeuvre too early. They said passing was not allowed at all 4(0.13). Then the green flags were a mistake too, right? Who gets penalised for those?

[Mr. K]

Could you tell me when a race finishes under safety car?

Let me answer for you: when there is safety car during the last lap. Period.

Vall I refer you to Predator's post

or to make it even easier

[feynman]

The FIA-installed elevator you use to get up to the steward's room





How hard is it ... clear, unambiguous language: RACE TO RESTART or RACE TO END UNDER SC CONDITIONS.

None of this SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP nonsense, what does that mean? Two mutually exclusive conditions both represented by the same timing-screen message and the same car peeling off into the pits.
Green lights that don't mean go, except when they do. Do you feel lucky?

If you want to finish under Safety Car conditions, you tell the teams that ... you don't issue the exact same message that you use to terminate all the previous SC periods in the race, but now expect them to guess what you meant, and drop a house on anyone who guesses wrong.

Idiots ... no wonder the engineers make a mockery and make mincemeat of these numbskulls and their rulebook every winter.

[piast9]

Referring to 2009 season is pointless because the SC regulation changed this year.

Whole situation is one big confusion. New rules say that the SC must come in just before the end of last lap. Waving green lights at this moment is a signal for racing. And these lights were on at the situation at which the racing was not permitted as stewards found.

I suspected maybe that the stewards will move him back where he was before the SC line. Adding 20s to Schumacher's time is a bit too big punishment as it may look as the race control error causing the confusion at the track.

[andrew]

Imagine if Hamilton had done this pass on Massa or Vettel. People would not be so split and this thread would have been locked long ago. So consider yourselves lucky :^o

Would there have even been any penalty?

Yeah, you're not biased at all... [-X
I'm fairly sure the punishment would have been the same, but the discussion here a lot more heated and it would lead to a lock.

My point is not to do with my own personnal bias. It is to do with the inconsistent punishments that have been dished out so far. Two drivers racing in the pitlane which is both illegal and dangerous get a telling off. A driver overtaking on track after getting mixed signals gets effectively disqualified. The punishment should fit the crime and thus far this season this has not happened. This is ruining what should be the best season for a long time.

[bill shoe]

feynman, I'm actually more skeptical than you. I think the secret and/or vaugue rules are basically intentional so that high-status people within F1 will have important sounding things to argue about. F1 has had ambiguous basic rules for many years now, but there is no interest in fixing more than one rule at a time.