2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, Dec 03 - 05

[bonjon1979]

Have to say, for all the talk of max lap, that was incredible of Hamilton through the first sector. Max was turning in and it stuck. Hamilton was dancing the whole way through, right on the limit constantly adjusting. Absolutely incredible from both of them.

[GerryTT]

If Max change his gearbox and starts 8th he only has to overtake 2 cars to get back to 3rd.

Perez, Gasly and Tsunoda will all let him past.

So it's better they take it rather than risk a DNF

My point exactly.
I hope this championship is decided in the last race and hopefully in the last laps.

[bonjon1979]

If Max change his gearbox and starts 8th he only has to overtake 2 cars to get back to 3rd.

Perez, Gasly and Tsunoda will all let him past.

So it's better they take it rather than risk a DNF

Yes and I think Verstappen would naturally back himself to make the overtakes quickly like last time anyway. I think they might delay announcing anything to reduce contingency planning time for Mercedes.

If the order remains the same. But he’ll still lose time. Field spread. Everyone battling. It’s not as simple as all that. I really hope we don’t see alpha turis fully lifting off to just let him past.

[DChemTech]

great...so they redeemed a bit of their dignity back...

That seems to be a pretty poor decision.
It was 100% clear that there was a yellow flag light blinking when Lewis was passing. As a driver, you do not know if it's there by accident, or because something really happened - but for safety you should assume the latter.
If the signals were inconsistent between different channels, that's no excuse - it was no excuse for Max either last time.

Have you read what the stewards have said? About the light being on for less than one second and no information was past to the drivers dash as it was not a flag situation, simply an error.

The facts they describe are really good and you can see why red bull aren't going to bother

Yes, I have seen all of that, and I think it's a poor decision. From the onboards, the flag being flashed is clearly visible, and a driver needs to respond to that. Even if it's brief, even if it's a mistake, because as a driver you do not, cannot , know whether it's an error or not - just that most of the time it's not, and by not slowing down, you may cause an unsafe situation.

In case of Max's penalty, the signals were also inconsistent ("Verstappen’s onboard shows him going past those double waved yellow flags, but the yellows did not show up on the race control screen or on his dash.") - yet he was penalized. By that precedent, so should Lewis.

[Hammerfist]

If Verstappen finishes fourth and wins Abu Dhabi with Hamilton taking only 1 fastest lap point in the last two races, Verstappen still is champion. So take the gearbox penalty and go for fourth and let’s have a real final in Abu Dhabi.

With my math even if Hamilton takes 2 fastest lap points he will still lose the title if he wins Jeddah and Max was to finish 4th. Because then they would be equal on points and Verstappen wins the WDC because he would have more race wins. So Hamilton still the underdog even if Max does not win tomorrow. And in fact, I doubt Max will finsih worse than third anyway. So Hamilton still needs to win the next 2 races to assure the title most likely.

[BlueCheetah66]

If Verstappen finishes fourth and wins Abu Dhabi with Hamilton taking only 1 fastest lap point in the last two races, Verstappen still is champion. So take the gearbox penalty and go for fourth and let’s have a real final in Abu Dhabi.

Realistically even if they take the penalty, 3rd is easily achievable and potentially 2nd by taking advantage of the circumstances in the race.

[GrizzleBoy]

If Max change his gearbox and starts 8th he only has to overtake 2 cars to get back to 3rd.

Perez, Gasly and Tsunoda will all let him past.

So it's better they take it rather than risk a DNF

Kind of BS when you think about it. Its such an anti-racing/low integrity thing that you'd usually attribute to corruption (think match fixing etc where teams agree to win/lose matches beforehand).

Yet we're just so used to the notion that if you're in a Red Bull, the second driver and two other cars basically don't exist on track except to let you past or hold up WDC/WCC opponents.

[siskue2005]

If Max change his gearbox and starts 8th he only has to overtake 2 cars to get back to 3rd.

Perez, Gasly and Tsunoda will all let him past.

So it's better they take it rather than risk a DNF

Yes and I think Verstappen would naturally back himself to make the overtakes quickly like last time anyway. I think they might delay announcing anything to reduce contingency planning time for Mercedes.

If the order remains the same. But he’ll still lose time. Field spread. Everyone battling. It’s not as simple as all that. I really hope we don’t see alpha turis fully lifting off to just let him past.

Didn't you see how Gasly ran wide and not even use DRS in the last race? That's same going to happen tomorrow with his 3 teammates

[mzivtins]

That seems to be a pretty poor decision.
It was 100% clear that there was a yellow flag light blinking when Lewis was passing. As a driver, you do not know if it's there by accident, or because something really happened - but for safety you should assume the latter.
If the signals were inconsistent between different channels, that's no excuse - it was no excuse for Max either last time.

Have you read what the stewards have said? About the light being on for less than one second and no information was past to the drivers dash as it was not a flag situation, simply an error.

The facts they describe are really good and you can see why red bull aren't going to bother

Yes, I have seen all of that, and I think it's a poor decision. From the onboards, the flag being flashed is clearly visible, and a driver needs to respond to that. Even if it's brief, even if it's a mistake, because as a driver you do not, cannot , know whether it's an error or not - just that most of the time it's not, and by not slowing down, you may cause an unsafe situation.

In case of Max's penalty, the signals were also inconsistent ("Verstappen’s onboard shows him going past those double waved yellow flags, but the yellows did not show up on the race control screen or on his dash.") - yet he was penalized. By that precedent, so should Lewis.

You can't have seen all the information and the stewards response.

There was no yellow flag scenario at all, the board flashing once for less than 1 second does not mean the course in in a yellow state, as they explained.

You are ignoring facts for your own opinion, how can you oenalize someone for ignoring yellow flags if there were no yellow flags?

[bonjon1979]

I think he was able to do so because there was massive field spread, if he’s battling with Norris, will he do the same? I hope not, I do think it tarnishes the sport somewhat. One driver has to overtake cars, while the other doesn’t? Granted, I reckon Russell gets out the way of Hamilton pdq but he’s not really in a position to affect anything. We’ve seen Morris fight Hamilton hard and keep him behind in Austin. Gasly isn’t doing that. I do think it’s tricky though through those fast kinks to let anyone through, I imagine the best place is the banked hairpin. Make it clear you’re taking a wide line to let through on the inside. Not much time lost

[Magicsenna_41]

Yes and I think Verstappen would naturally back himself to make the overtakes quickly like last time anyway. I think they might delay announcing anything to reduce contingency planning time for Mercedes.

If the order remains the same. But he’ll still lose time. Field spread. Everyone battling. It’s not as simple as all that. I really hope we don’t see alpha turis fully lifting off to just let him past.

Didn't you see how Gasly ran wide and not even use DRS in the last race? That's same going to happen tomorrow with his 3 teammates

I dont think they have quick through traffic car and especially racepace-wise.
Have the feeling that RedBull desperatly wanted pole or first row.

And starting 8th in the pack ist something different and will not always be turn out like in Qatar.

[dans79]

If the order remains the same. But he’ll still lose time. Field spread. Everyone battling. It’s not as simple as all that. I really hope we don’t see alpha turis fully lifting off to just let him past.

Didn't you see how Gasly ran wide and not even use DRS in the last race? That's same going to happen tomorrow with his 3 teammates

I dont think they have quick through traffic car and especially racepace-wise.
Have the feeling that RedBull desperatly wanted pole or first row.

And starting 8th in the pack ist something different and will not always be turn out like in Qatar.

Yea, this would be more like starting 8th in Singapore or Monaco, We're you're just hoping to make it through the 1st few corners without losing any places or getting any damage.

[DChemTech]

You can't have seen all the information and the stewards response.

There was no yellow flag scenario at all, the board flashing once for less than 1 second does not mean the course in in a yellow state, as they explained.

You are ignoring facts for your own opinion, how can you oenalize someone for ignoring yellow flags if there were no yellow flags?

Did you see the onboard?
When Lewis was driving past, there was consistently a flashing yellow.
The driver cannot know if that will be gone in a second or will last for 10 seconds,
The driver cannot know if it is local or full course,
The driver cannot know if there is a stranded car ahead or not,
But, by the mere fact that a yellow is being displayed, the drivers should, at that moment, regardless how long it lasts, anticipate danger and act accordingly. That's all there is to it.

The situations between Max last time and Lewis this time are completely the same. There was a show of a yellow through one communication channel (even though in hindsight there was no specific reason for it to be shown) while they were passing, and they did not respond. The information between different channels was not consistent. Yet one was penalized and the other was not.

[bonjon1979]

If max doesn’t take a gearbox penalty and starts third, surely merc are just going to ask Bottas to put max in a really nasty 50/50 position? Move across to the right to put him on the outside and then take the racing line. Max can either back out or go off track and into the wall. Im not calling for anything against the rules or putting max in the wall or anything like that. But clearly, valtarri can move to the right and then give max a choice of what he wants to do.

[Starkblood80]

You can't have seen all the information and the stewards response.

There was no yellow flag scenario at all, the board flashing once for less than 1 second does not mean the course in in a yellow state, as they explained.

You are ignoring facts for your own opinion, how can you oenalize someone for ignoring yellow flags if there were no yellow flags?

Did you see the onboard?
When Lewis was driving past, there was consistently a flashing yellow.
The driver cannot know if that will be gone in a second or will last for 10 seconds,
The driver cannot know if it is local or full course,
The driver cannot know if there is a stranded car ahead or not,
But, by the mere fact that a yellow is being displayed, the drivers should, at that moment, regardless how long it lasts, anticipate danger and act accordingly. That's all there is to it.

The situations between Max last time and Lewis this time are completely the same. There was a show of a yellow through one communication channel (even though in hindsight there was no specific reason for it to be shown) while they were passing, and they did not respond. The information between different channels was not consistent. Yet one was penalized and the other was not.

Consistently a yellow flag? It literally flashed once for less than a second and went off again. Do yourself a favour and try and look at the situation objectively.