Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

[vall]

Could you tell me when a race finishes under safety car?

Let me answer for you: when there is safety car during the last lap. Period.

Vall I refer you to Predator's post

or to make it even easier

nonetheless, if there is a safety car in the last lap, the race obviously finishes under safety car, so 10.13 applies.

not to mention that otherwise it does not make any sense, no? Letting the drivers fight for another 100m?

[komninosm]

Would there have even been any penalty?

Yeah, you're not biased at all... [-X
I'm fairly sure the punishment would have been the same, but the discussion here a lot more heated and it would lead to a lock.

My point is not to do with my own personnal bias. It is to do with the inconsistent punishments that have been dished out so far. Two drivers racing in the pitlane which is both illegal and dangerous get a telling off. A driver overtaking on track after getting mixed signals gets effectively disqualified. The punishment should fit the crime and thus far this season this has not happened. This is ruining what should be the best season for a long time.

Yeah, right...
We're still waiting for you to quote the proper rules on that. So it still is your bias on that incident and not proper facts.
Can anyone answer my main questions in that post instead of my observation on forum member bias?

[spinmastermic]

Nobody seems to get the fact he had been driving for nearly an hour flat out. He would have been full of adrenaline. Its all very well to sit there watching a race saying "tut tut", but come on! Once your heart beat goes above 100 common sense goes out the window. He should be praised for not cursing his head off.

are you serious? full of adrenaline? what about vettel being told to slow down at the last race? did he throw a fit at his team like a little school girl? no, because hes one of the professional drivers.

seems to me hamilton is a spoilt little brat, i remember him mouthin off his team to even in interviews when his car wasnt that great. so ungrateful! this has nothing to do with adrenaline. hes just a douche with a huge ego.

Calm down. Vettel was told to stop by his team in Spain and he didnt. Is that professional in your mind? The two of them are passionate racers and I'm not going to critisize them for speaking their minds. A driver that doesnt question his team is useless (or asked to crash). "Spoiled little brat" is a bit harsh. He, like the rest of them want to win.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

[



Yeah, right...
We're still waiting for you to quote the proper rules on that.
Can anyone answer my main questions in that post instead of my observation on forum member bias?

Can you not see the waving green flags and flash green lights indicating RACE. The race conditions warranted what schumacher did, how the hell can you penalise him? Its bollocks

[Mr. K]

nonetheless, if there is a safety car in the last lap, the race obviously finishes under safety car, so 10.13 applies.

not to mention that otherwise it does not make any sense, no? Letting the drivers fight for another 100m?

why not let them race for the last 100m?
if the SC is brought in after rule 40.11 wich is how it looked to everyone the race is back on, even if it is the final lap.

[andrew]

ISLAMATRON - I have known Johnson through the threads on this site and another and whilst we don't always see eye tio eye on something, I would say that he is not a racist. A person can dislike Hamilton without being racist you know.

Komninosm - how about YOU produce the rules then rather that complaining when someone mentions the pitlane thing as it critisizes the driver you support. And you critisize ME for bias? BWAHAHAHA

[zenithbeach]

You cringe everytime you hear Hamilton because you are an outright racist, really for you it would be better if he were not in F1 at all, you've called him a "small boy", would you like to finish your racist comment with adding monkey as well?

wow.. assuming that people who dont like hamilton are racist??? THAT is pretty judgemental and let me say one thing.. takes one to know one!

how sad this world is

[feynman]

nonetheless, if there is a safety car in the last lap, the race obviously finishes under safety car, so 10.13 applies.

not to mention that otherwise it does not make any sense, no? Letting the drivers fight for another 100m?

no that's not obvious, clearly 30odd pages not obvious.

If the message SC IN THIS LAP appeared on lap6, the cars would have raced that corner, so what changes 70odd laps later.

SC IN THIS LAP has thusfar always meant end of SC period, just like cut the chicane always meant give the place back, right up until it suddenly didn't.

I appreciate they don't want the car in the pictures as the chequerflag drops, then you just peel it off to the pitlane, and issue a clear statement saying SC conditions persist.
What you don't do, is you don't use the exact message you use to terminate SC periods, say the track is clear, switch on the green lights, and then start banhammering anyone that gets caught up in the confusion that you just shambolically created.

Race control and the stewards needs a 20second penalty, and by that I mean a good repeated, full-square, boot in the nads for a solid 20seconds.

[komninosm]

[



Yeah, right...
We're still waiting for you to quote the proper rules on that.
Can anyone answer my main questions in that post instead of my observation on forum member bias?

Can you not see the waving green flags and flash green lights indicating RACE. The race conditions warranted what schumacher did, how the hell can you penalise him? Its bollocks

Can you read my post again FFS? Here it is again since you missed it apparently (I disagree a bit with the Stewards):

I dislike Ferrari and Schumacher and Alonso so I am objective according to some people's standards.
Some people suggested giving a place back instead of a drive through penalty. Is there a rule for that kind of penalty? There's been many cases in the past that a drive through seemed too harsh for, but there doesn't seem to be an alternative in the rules. Is there?
Was the track really clear at the final lap? They seemed to have trouble removing the second crashed car up to the second to last lap and what about clearing the debris? The green flags were a mistake then probably.
One final thing. Was Schumacher allowed to close up to Alonso so much before the SC line? I vaguely recall rules about keeping a distance to the car in front of you. When Schumacher crossed the white line, his front wing was at Alonso's wheel level. But then again that is not the justification the Stewards gave. They didn't say he started his passing manoeuvre too early. They said passing was not allowed at all 4(0.13). Then the green flags were a mistake too, right? Who gets penalised for those?

[andartop]

Well done to Webber and Red Bull, Vettel and Kubica. Clearly this track suited the Renault engine well, but I guess Red Bull would be up there anyway.. I guess we should be grateful for all their reliability issues, and the difficulties their two drivers seem to have to actually overtake someone on track, otherwise we would be watching a repeat of last year's Brawn GP dominance..

I hope Renault will improve their car further, and allow Kubica to challenge Mercedes on a regular basis.

I can't believe people have been downplaying Alonso's performance from the back of the grid to 6th (or 7th), especially people who would proclaim other drivers gods last year for struggling to end up in 13th place or so on tracks where overtaking is actually possible (Turkey anyone?)..

Yes, when you start from the back of the grid with a faster car it is only natural that you should be able to overtake the backmarkers, however, I remember a certain British 2-time winner in Monaco being stuck for 40 laps or so behind an Arrows in the same streets, waving hands and feet up in the air and being unable to do anything like what Alonso did today..

Also, seeing as no one in the top 5 even dared to attempt an overtake, which is pretty good evidence that in Monaco, with these cars, you really have to be much quicker to even dream of an overtake, I guess it is only fair to say Alonso managed the absolute best result possible under the circumstances.

Which brings us to the whole MS vs FA incident..

I think it is quite clear who messed up and should be embarrassed: the race stewards! They should have either not waved the green flags (lights) on, or deem the pass legit.

As it is, I think both FA and MS have reason to believe they were right: FA was told by his team he can not overtake, which implies the teams had been informed the race would finish under SC conditions; and MS thought he had every right to do so seeing the green lights, and of course grabbed the opportunity as anyone would.
I think the penalty is too harsh, especially considering all the reprimands handed so far in other incidents this year.

I know it sounds a bit bitter and unsporting, but I think if I was in Alonso's shoes I would have been really tempted to just shut the door on Michael as soon as I saw him next to me, and cause the rest of the field to pile up behind me!!! THAT would have been interesting to see the stewards decision on!

All in all though, I think this whole issue detracts the attention from what Rubens did with his steering wheel. That was absolutely inexcusable. Not only he did not follow the rule that upon retirement he is obliged to put the steering wheel back in place, he deliberately threw it in the freaking racing line, putting other drivers at risk. After what happened last year with Massa, I think this very specific very experienced driver should know better than that. I would actually go as far as to say this move was as bad as Renault's crashgate, and if HRT do not request a punishment the FIA should take action itself. A 5 race ban for Rubens honestly does not sound harsh at all to me.

What would he do then if he was actually challenging for a win or a championship and his car let him down like this? Take out a shotgun and start shooting at the stewards?!!!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The fact remains green flags and lights were waving at the time right?
So why the penalty? Like i said.... BS

[zenithbeach]

Calm down. Vettel was told to stop by his team in Spain and he didnt. Is that professional in your mind? The two of them are passionate racers and I'm not going to critisize them for speaking their minds. A driver that doesnt question his team is useless (or asked to crash). "Spoiled little brat" is a bit harsh. He, like the rest of them want to win.

fair point! they all do. some handle directions better than others though.
the spoilt little brat.. i was referring to his nasty comments about his team and the "shitty" car the other season. that really felt like he was a little kid angry with his parents for buying him a fiat when he wanted a mercedes that, of course, is just my perception. i do admit though that hes learnt to be more diplomatic over the past year.

so i was a bit disappointed to see that he went a back to his old ways, is all. hes obviously a very talented driver! i just wish he had a more likeable personality

[Ray]

Schumacher is a damn cheat. If it was okay to overtake after the SC came in, why was he the only one that did it? Answer, he's a dirty goddamn cheat that cannot win in a straight fight. Full stop. Nothing anyone says will change that. He knows damn well why the safety car gets out of the way on the last lap, it says in the rules why the safety car goes in and what should happen afterwards. You people are so goddamn biased and the intelligence around here is dropping. I can see why Manchild left, you people are children. None of you have a shred of common sense, and none of you can make an objective observation.

[komninosm]

nonetheless, if there is a safety car in the last lap, the race obviously finishes under safety car, so 10.13 applies.

not to mention that otherwise it does not make any sense, no? Letting the drivers fight for another 100m?

no that's not obvious, clearly 30odd pages not obvious.

If the message SC IN THIS LAP appeared on lap6, the cars would have raced that corner, so what changes 70odd laps later.

SC IN THIS LAP has thusfar always meant end of SC period, just like cut the chicane always meant give the place back, right up until it suddenly didn't.

I appreciate they don't want the car in the pictures as the chequerflag drops, then you just peel it off to the pitlane, and issue a clear statement saying SC conditions persist.
What you don't do, is you don't use the exact message you use to terminate SC periods, say the track is clear, switch on the green lights, and then start banhammering anyone that gets caught up in the confusion that you just shambolically created.

Race control and the stewards needs a 20second penalty, and by that I mean a good repeated, full-square, boot in the nads for a solid 20seconds.

I agree. Why did they not have yellow flags out like in Australia 2009 finish? Seems someone made a mistake there. Was the track really cleaned of debris anyway?

[komninosm]

The fact remains green flags and lights were waving at the time right?
So why the penalty? Like i said.... BS

That's why I ended my post with the conclusion "Who gets penalised for those?", meaning the erroneous green flags and stuff (either those were mistakes or the stewards' decision is). My other points are meant to investigate which is which.