2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[FW17]

It is indeed expected that Turbo lag will not be an issue due to electric spool up assist by the MGU-H.

Is turbo lag purely a issue of boost or a byproduct of a small capacity engine running in at low RPM?

[Holm86]

It is indeed expected that Turbo lag will not be an issue due to electric spool up assist by the MGU-H.

Is turbo lag purely a issue of boost or a byproduct of a small capacity engine running in at low RPM?

Its a turbo issue. With many factors. Turbo engines will always have lag. Its just a question of how much. Unless they are assisted with an electric motor as the 2014 F1 engines.

[tuj]

turbo lag is the effect of the fact that the turbo is a feedback machine: it needs strong exhaust pulses to pressurize the cold size of the turbine, which then pressurizes the intake, which then makes more power, resulting in stronger exhaust pulses, which then hit the hot side of the turbine. So a turbine is generally sized appropriate both to the engine size (displacement) and to the intended rev running range. Put a big turbo on a small engine and that creates a lot of lag. Put a small turbo on a big engine and there is virtually no lag.

But with the 2014 cars, the turbo will always be spooled up due to the ERS system.

[PABLOEING]

¿It's`possible a bang-bang antilag rally system in the F1 2014 engines?

[tuj]

¿It's`possible a bang-bang antilag rally system in the F1 2014 engines?

No fuel injectors are permitted in the exhaust. Without VVT, there isn't a way to delay the exhaust closing to boost turbo performance, although you could fire spark late in the cycle. But again, all this is moot because the MGU-H is going to constantly be spinning the turbo.

[Holm86]

¿It's`possible a bang-bang antilag rally system in the F1 2014 engines?

No fuel injectors are permitted in the exhaust. Without VVT, there isn't a way to delay the exhaust closing to boost turbo performance, although you could fire spark late in the cycle. But again, all this is moot because the MGU-H is going to constantly be spinning the turbo.

The exhaust gets hot enough to ignite the fuel. So just cut the ignition and the fuel will burn in the exhaust.

2014 is about fuel effiency so they wont waste fuel to burn it in the exhaust. But maby in the races where they wont use all 100kg of fuel. Monaco etc.??

[Pavan_MP423]

turbo lag is the effect of the fact that the turbo is a feedback machine: it needs strong exhaust pulses to pressurize the cold size of the turbine, which then pressurizes the intake, which then makes more power, resulting in stronger exhaust pulses, which then hit the hot side of the turbine. So a turbine is generally sized appropriate both to the engine size (displacement) and to the intended rev running range. Put a big turbo on a small engine and that creates a lot of lag. Put a small turbo on a big engine and there is virtually no lag.

But with the 2014 cars, the turbo will always be spooled up due to the ERS system.

Exactly!! But MGU-H absorbs power from turbine shaft, recovering energy from exhaust. So unless the turbines are driven by exhaust carrying sufficient energy there will be lag.
How about we put this into perspective? Two cases:
1. During Race start: The moment before drivers launch their car, can we assume that exhaust pulses are intense enough to energise ERS(MGU-H only), and in turn have the turbines spooling? This prevents turbo-lag.

2. Exit out of the slow corner: We know that as the cars enter & exit outta slow speed corners, the engine RPM will be low for a small span ( at least until 30% throttle ). So the lag continues to exist.

[dren]

Anyone have an idea of typical SI intake temperatures and typical engine coolant temps?

[Abarth]

Anyone have an idea of typical SI intake temperatures and typical engine coolant temps?

Engine coolant temperature has been said to be around 130°C at radiator entrance.

What do you mean by SI intakte temperatures? Turbocharged engies with intercooler?
I have no idea where those levels are, as they depend frome intake pressure and desired intake temperature. I can remember a light truck diesel engine (many years ago) which had around 130deg after turbine and was cooled down to around 70deg IIRC.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Renault Chooses Bosch Injectors like Mercedes It seems Ferrari will be the only team to use Magneti Marelli injectors. The article says MM injectors are already injecting fuel at 500 bar while Bosch is still working to get to said limit.

[Ferraripilot]

Renault Chooses Bosch Injectors like Mercedes It seems Ferrari will be the only team to use Magneti Marelli injectors. The article says MM injectors are already injecting fuel at 500 bar while Bosch is still working to get to said limit.

That just means the Renault, MB motors will be more reliable haha. I kid

How important is it really to get to 500bar say if a injector were running at 450bar already?

[langwadt]

turbo lag is the effect of the fact that the turbo is a feedback machine: it needs strong exhaust pulses to pressurize the cold size of the turbine, which then pressurizes the intake, which then makes more power, resulting in stronger exhaust pulses, which then hit the hot side of the turbine. So a turbine is generally sized appropriate both to the engine size (displacement) and to the intended rev running range. Put a big turbo on a small engine and that creates a lot of lag. Put a small turbo on a big engine and there is virtually no lag.

But with the 2014 cars, the turbo will always be spooled up due to the ERS system.

Exactly!! But MGU-H absorbs power from turbine shaft, recovering energy from exhaust. So unless the turbines are driven by exhaust carrying sufficient energy there will be lag.
How about we put this into perspective? Two cases:
1. During Race start: The moment before drivers launch their car, can we assume that exhaust pulses are intense enough to energise ERS(MGU-H only), and in turn have the turbines spooling? This prevents turbo-lag.

2. Exit out of the slow corner: We know that as the cars enter & exit outta slow speed corners, the engine RPM will be low for a small span ( at least until 30% throttle ). So the lag continues to exist.

Motor-Generator-Unit, the motor part means it can drive the turbo as well so there need not be any lag, the turbine can be spooled up with electricity

[aleks_ader]

As of now it seems Ferrari will be the only power unit to use Magneti Marelli fuel injectors. It seems other teams have chosen to go with Bosch. Teams have a choice between one or the other. Rumors in the paddock are that Magneti Marelli are already injecting fuel at 500 bar while Bosch is working to get to this limit. Teams must decide on the injectors by Feb 28th.
via OmniCorse.it

May I assume that the pump is a 'single piston mechanically operated by a multi-lobe (2, 3 and 4 lobes) cam' discussed on Magneti Marelli web site? Where would this be commonly mounted the engine?

Brian

The GDI pumps are mounted on the cylinder heads and cam operated as you say. You can see the pumps on the inlet cam of the Renault 2014 engine.
I'm surprised the Bosch pump isnt up to 500 as their wbsite list a stock part with the throughput

http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/en-US/li ... 336971.pdf

I m wondering about that racing high pressure pumps! Are they also use air spring in it or are is spring hysteresis irrelevant for DI (pressure +/- build up, precision etc.) ? If i m right mechanical steel springs (before invention of pneumatic accutation manufactures try lightweight titanium also) REVs up to 12 kRPM so it is very on the limit? So how they deal with that?

[garrett]

One question about the cooling: After Niki Lauda mentioned it, now Toto Wolff is warning of problems with the cooling of the new power units which could become a serious problem, although in general being optimistic about the course of the test event. Lauda in fact warned of troubles regarding oil and water temperatures which must be kept in a certain (small?) process window, otherwise there would be danger of overheating. It may be discussed before, and although it is forbidden in the current regulations, but would the addition of water or methanol injection help to solve this problem? I could imagine if the problem reveals to become serious and hazardous, or could even endanger their projects, the manufacturers could ask for it very fast. Additionally, as I understood Lauda aright, these problems would even be more relevant for the customer teams as they don´t have the possibilities of the maunfacturers to sort it out.

For the turbo lag issue, recently the Austrian technician Fritz Indra (Audi, Opel, BMW Alpina) was doubtful about the MGU-H eliminating the whole turbo lag during a comment in the "Auto Revue", because of the extraordinary big turbo charger. Obviously, he fears a non-zero sum game...

[WhiteBlue]

... But MGU-H absorbs power from turbine shaft, recovering energy from exhaust. So unless the turbines are driven by exhaust carrying sufficient energy there will be lag.
How about we put this into perspective? Two cases:
1. During Race start: The moment before drivers launch their car, can we assume that exhaust pulses are intense enough to energise ERS(MGU-H only), and in turn have the turbines spooling? This prevents turbo-lag.
2. Exit out of the slow corner: We know that as the cars enter & exit outta slow speed corners, the engine RPM will be low for a small span ( at least until 30% throttle ). So the lag continues to exist.

No, you are not correct on two points. The MGU-H is a bi dictional electric machine. It draws power from the Energy Storage (ES). So we expect the turbine to be electrically spool assisted in all critical conditions when exhaust blow down is insufficient to provide the desired boost. In other words: Lag will be prevented at all times.