2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[Gothrek]

It was 100% clear that Vettel was wholly and predominantly to blame for all 4 of the above incidents,
yet only a 10 second stop-and-go penalty was issued.

No it wasn't... The first collision is partly Hamiltons fault too.
And your second "incident" is not an incident...

[Facts Only]

What has annoyed me is that if me or any of my competitors did that (crashing into a car under a safety period, deliberately or theough incompetence) at one of our low level events we wpuld be black flagged, ejected from the event, banned from future events and referred to the governing body for further reprimand.

I've really grown to loke Vettel over the years but now I really think hes a complete bellend for what he did and a liar and a cry baby forthe way he reacted afterwards. Hamilton is correct, he has disgraced himself and he has digraced his andmy sport.

[djos]

It was 100% clear that Vettel was wholly and predominantly to blame for all 4 of the above incidents,
yet only a 10 second stop-and-go penalty was issued.

No it wasn't... The first collision is partly Hamiltons fault too.
And your second "incident" is not an incident...

Rubbish, try running up the back of someone who was managing a consistent speed and then telling your insurance company it wasn't your fault. They'll laugh at you!

[Sniffit]

I really don't get why people, specially in the media are giving Vettel a public flogging.

Because it was only luck that stopped Hamilton's (or Vettel's) wishbones being damaged, then failing under braking at they approached a wall once the race resumed on the street circuit.

There is an almost infinite distance between 'boring corporate drone' and 'using an object to smash another driver's car during a race'. Avoiding one extreme does not mean immediately moving to the other.

Do you really think risking this happening at the end of the Baku straight (no gravel, much shorter run-off) is acceptable, let alone 'entertaining'? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFPQui9hn50

Unless it would result in death or serious harm then yes. I am not saying it's acceptable in the sense that he shouldn't get punished (like he was) but come on, it was some action, some emotion, Vettel deserves a pat on the back.

[Steven]

I've seen nothing new since page 20, and the level of argumentation isn't really improving either...

So, let's leave it at that shall we?

[Phil]

So the other topic has been locked (for good reason IMO), but there seems to be some development on what happened in Baku for Vettel.

From AMuS:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 26455.html

Sebastian Vettels absichtliche Kollision mit Lewis Hamilton ist noch nicht zu den Akten gelegt. FIA-Präsident Jean Todt untersucht den Fall. Möglicherweise droht Vettel der Gang vor das Internationale Sportgericht der FIA.

Roughly translated, the article explains following points:

- Vettels 2nd collision with Hamilton may have some further consequences, as FIA president Jean Todt supposedly is looking into the incident
- Vettel may be called before the internation sporting court of the FIA
- worst case could be a race ban
- this would be the 2nd time Vettel is being scrutinized by the FIA, the first being Mexico last year when he lashed out on team-radio towards Max and Charlie Whiting.
- last time, Vettel got away because he apologized and Sebs engagement as a road and safety ambassador (?) [Engagement bei den Sicherheitskampagnen des Weltverbandes]
- the issue is that the incident is looked at as a deliberate action and not accidental
- A decision if more is to come will be made this week


IMO - this is just bad. If the stewards may have come up with a more "appropriate punishment" than the 10 seconds stop-and-go (like a disqualification), this would be a thing of the past and we'd be looking forward. Because of it, we may have a bigger influence on the WDC and in a totally unrelated race which is always just bad for F1, bad for the sport etc.

If Seb had been disqualified from Baku, the WDC gap would have been down to zero which would have been a lot better (and solved by now) than potential future-race-ban that could cost way more points.

Perhaps one could say that if Vettel had taken an apologetic stance post race (instead of maintaining he was in the right and avoid the questions), he could have avoided any such potential aftermath.

PS: I still like Seb.

PPS: I think the FIA is more limited now to do something as anything will have a bigger influence on the WDC (which no one wants). So my guess is what ever comes, a race ban will not be it. Perhaps a big fine?

[ME4ME]

IMO - this is just bad. If the stewards may have come up with a more "appropriate punishment" than the 10 seconds stop-and-go (like a disqualification), this would be a thing of the past and we'd be looking forward. Because of it, we may have a bigger influence on the WDC and in a totally unrelated race which is always just bad for F1, bad for the sport etc.

I agree, applying another penalty because Todt is upset undermines the pentalty point system.

I haven't expressed any opinion on the matter previously, but reading Villeneuve's comments (which i normally don't sympathize with) I agree with every word he said:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-v ... ve-923932/

[AnotherAlex]

I agree, applying another penalty because Todt is upset undermines the pentalty point system.

I haven't expressed any opinion on the matter previously, but reading Villeneuve's comments (which i normally don't sympathize with) I agree with every word he said:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-v ... ve-923932/

Indeed. A 10 second stop-go, so a loss approaching 30 seconds, particularly at a time when the field has been bunched up by the red flag is a significant penalty and entirely sufficient IMO.

We wouldn't be hearing the current, ludicrous whinging about the severity of the penalty and the possibility of retrospective action if Hamilton had been able to capitalise on it but the fact that he couldn't was entirely Mercedes' fault for not tucking him in properly at the end of the red flag period.

[Wass85]

Vettel got off very lightly but nobody has picked up on the point that Vettel hitting him was a blessing in disguise for Hamilton.

With or without that incident Hamilton would have still encountered that problem with his headrest which meant Vettel would have won the race whilst he wouldn't make the podium, thankyou Sebastian.

The headrest was taken off during the red flag and replaced for the start, there is no guarantee that the headrest was improperly fitted at the start of the race, it is more probable that the headrest was not properly refitted for the red flag restart. Vettel's crash happy mania was no "blessing" in disguise as you claim.

I'm confused here, I thought the Vettel incident was the final safety car?

[ferkan]

I thought 10s stop and go penalty was plenty. There were situations where drivers purposly crashed in full speed, Vettel literally touched wheels with Hamilton.

Completely over the line? Yes. Penalized for it enough? Absolutely. With no Hamiltons headrest issue, there would be big point loss for Vettel but, FIA cannot go back and penalize him again with race ban because Hamiltons headrest got loose and point difference wasnt there because of it.

[FrukostScones]

Vettel got off very lightly but nobody has picked up on the point that Vettel hitting him was a blessing in disguise for Hamilton.

With or without that incident Hamilton would have still encountered that problem with his headrest which meant Vettel would have won the race whilst he wouldn't make the podium, thankyou Sebastian.

The headrest was taken off during the red flag and replaced for the start, there is no guarantee that the headrest was improperly fitted at the start of the race, it is more probable that the headrest was not properly refitted for the red flag restart. Vettel's crash happy mania was no "blessing" in disguise as you claim.

I'm confused here, I thought the Vettel incident was the final safety car?

YeH,, it is difficult to say VET would have won without the road rage, because we never will now what would have happened then. Maybe in the theory oft everything interferes with everything the Merc guy would have installed the head rest correctly. Or Ocon and Per would not have even crashed...

[Squid]

And there it is. The reason why Seb still hasn't said absolutely anything publicly about the second contact. Many people are criticizing Vettel for not apologizing straight away, but if the FIA is not done with them yet, saying anything could hurt them even further. Wait until FIA closes the file on this, then make the statement.

If he publicly said it was intentional, the FIA has a confession.
If he publicly said it was accidental and the FIA decides it was intentional, they might come down even harder.

It's just better to not say anything yet.

PPS: I think the FIA is more limited now to do something as anything will have a bigger influence on the WDC (which no one wants). So my guess is what ever comes, a race ban will not be it. Perhaps a big fine?

Force Vettel to do cheesy road safety ads for TV.

[dans79]

I'm confused here, I thought the Vettel incident was the final safety car?

Nope, is was before the 2nd of the 3 safety car periods. Vettel wasn't even the cause of the safety car, that was thanks to Ocon and Pérez.

[SR71]

Will footage from the high speed camera facing the driver be usable in FIA prosecution or Ferrari defense?

If we give Vettel the benefit of the doubt and say the wheel bump was accidental steering input (given his hysterical hand waving, totally plausible) then this high speed camera could show his hands were off the wheel for instance.

Of course the opposite could be true and show him gripping the wheel with a deliberate input.

Who controls the high speed camera data, Ferrari or the FIA?

[drunkf1fan]

The most telling part of the grand prix for me was Hamilton whining to the pitlane to make them compromise Bottas' race so that he could back up Vettel so that Hamilton would have a chance to pass.
I think cracks are showing in the Hamilton facade of greatness.
Ill take the hotheaded racer who loses his temper over the driver that it seems needs his team to manipulate his teamate for his gain .

Jesus, the Hamilton hate can't help but seep through. Firstly Hamilton said IF Bottas can't catch the guy ahead of him. He didn't know where Bottas was, if Bottas was 20 seconds behind the guy ahead with no chance to win it makes absolute sense to help out Hamilton and anyone who can't see that is crazy.

Second, the most telling part of the race? The team screwed him out of a win with a screw up with the head rest when he'd put in a phenomenal performance all weekend to dominate and lead. On top of that, he had damage to the diffuser and we have no idea how much time that was costing him.

Hamilton needs to manipulate his team mate? Right, because Rosberg was a huge help to him in the last three years, as Alonso was in 2007.

You'll also take the guy who deliberately hits another driver under a safety car over someone who asked that if his team mate couldn't gain any more positions, if he can help him out to beat the guy who rammed him, seriously.