Belgian GP 2011 - Spa-Francorchamps

[Gerhard Berger]

It is normal, but only once they have fully passed the other car.

If the job was genuinly done, then there would have been no need for Kamui to lift.

Agreed – so what I'm saying is with kamui only barely along side he could have thought reasonably "hey, there's a fair chance with the --- mirrors these cars have, and the fact that I'm in a blind spot that he's going to think the job's done and move across. Because of that, I'm going to lift a little and enter the corner marginally slower. It's going to get me tucked up right behind him and I might have a chance into Rivage if I really think I can get him back."

He didn't have to – but it would have been sensible.

Kamui was very much alongside Hamilton:



A driver can not be expected to lift off just because there is a possibility that Hamilton will make a mistake and decide to drive into his path.

[myurr]

That appears to be a very deceptive photo. Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh-THd-wrhw. It's Kobayashi's front wheel that hits Hamilton's rear. Also in the second half of the video you see the entire thing from Hamilton's on board camera, and you don't see Kobayashi's car at all. So there was no way that his car was as alongside as it looks in that angle.

[beelsebob]

Kamui was very much alongside Hamilton:

A driver can not be expected to lift off just because there is a possibility that Hamilton will make a mistake and decide to drive into his path.

Not at the point of impact he's not, nor when Hamilton begins to move across – yes he got fully along side down the straight, but Hamilton began to pull away again.

A driver can absolutely be expected to lift off just because they know that they don't stand a chance of the overtake and that they're in a compromising position. Kamui himself acknowledged this in saying that he didn't want to be along side and wasn't trying to pass. They can also be expected to give themselves the best chance of a pass in following corners, which getting yourself stuck out wide doesn't do – he would have had to have backed out of it for the left handed part of les combes anyway. If he'd slotted in behind hamilton he would have got a great run into rivage, or even up the inside of Malmendy.

[Gerhard Berger]

Kamui was very much alongside Hamilton:

A driver can not be expected to lift off just because there is a possibility that Hamilton will make a mistake and decide to drive into his path.

Not at the point of impact he's not, nor when Hamilton begins to move across – yes he got fully along side down the straight, but Hamilton began to pull away again.

A driver can absolutely be expected to lift off just because they know that they don't stand a chance of the overtake and that they're in a compromising position. Kamui himself acknowledged this in saying that he didn't want to be along side and wasn't trying to pass. They can also be expected to give themselves the best chance of a pass in following corners, which getting yourself stuck out wide doesn't do – he would have had to have backed out of it for the left handed part of les combes anyway. If he'd slotted in behind hamilton he would have got a great run into rivage, or even up the inside of Malmendy.

At the point of impact there was nothing Kamui could - it was already too late. At no point was Hamilton fully passed Kamui.

He was not in a compromising position though. Plenty of drivers go side by side into corners. Taking the racing line and giving yourself a wide entry is in fact the best way to make a pass at the following corner since you can cut back inside the other driver and benefit from a better exit (watch Petrov's move on Rosberg last year).

[FrukostScones]

At the point of impact there was nothing Kamui could - it was already too late. At no point was Hamilton fully passed Kamui.

He was not in a compromising position though. Plenty of drivers go side by side into corners. Taking the racing line and giving yourself a wide entry is in fact the best way to make a pass at the following corner since you can cut back inside the other driver and benefit from a better exit (watch Petrov's move on Rosberg last year).

what do you mean?

Hamilton was the whole straight in front of Kamui. Kobayashi never had a chance for a clean passing manoeuvre.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybjqj2ZS ... re=related[/youtube]

[beelsebob]

At the point of impact there was nothing Kamui could - it was already too late. At no point was Hamilton fully passed Kamui.

He was not in a compromising position though. Plenty of drivers go side by side into corners. Taking the racing line and giving yourself a wide entry is in fact the best way to make a pass at the following corner since you can cut back inside the other driver and benefit from a better exit (watch Petrov's move on Rosberg last year).

Of course, cutting back inside requires what? Ah right – being behind them, not along side

[marcush.]

Schumacher had new tyres for all his stints and crucially had the opportunity to get rid of the medium tyre set in the first 5 laps .the trick is not to try and make them live long but ride the rim of their envelope which he did.The first laps usually are slowish anyways so tyre performance is not really the deciding factor for lap time.
He stopped as early as anyone else BUT had now the window wide open to use brand new tyres soft or medium as needed .
Compare this to Rosberg ...he needed to do the fianl stint with the mediums and these are not a match for the softs on the W02 so he was a second per lap slower ...so basically he did not want to use them longer than necessary...also having the softs at the end with rubered in track and light fuelloads will not ask too much from the tyre so you don´t have to nurse these so much...It simply was a better race strategy.
I have the feeling A LOT of races this year would have netted better results for the teams when they just left alone q2 or3 attempts and saved tyres .You get at least 1 or 2 quick laps more out of a tyre set or on the same stint length you are maybe .5 to .8seconds quicker per lap ... on a 44lap race tháts an awful lot of time ....starting from say p20 (asa MGP would be quicker than all virgins and HRTs even with a monkey driving)...you maybe lose 15sec due to being stuck in traffic on your way to the front but you still got a handsome bag of time in your hands not going ego and not stamping authority in Q3.

I´m looking forward to see their traction and brakeperformance in the monza park...this could be an interesting race.I wonder how the double DRS zones may hurt their result...as they seem quick enough to overtake anyone .the ruling will no doubt make things easier for the others to hold them in check.

[Gerhard Berger]

At the point of impact there was nothing Kamui could - it was already too late. At no point was Hamilton fully passed Kamui.

He was not in a compromising position though. Plenty of drivers go side by side into corners. Taking the racing line and giving yourself a wide entry is in fact the best way to make a pass at the following corner since you can cut back inside the other driver and benefit from a better exit (watch Petrov's move on Rosberg last year).

Of course, cutting back inside requires what? Ah right – being behind them, not along side

That's not a requirement, at least not for the entry to the corner.

[Gerhard Berger]

At the point of impact there was nothing Kamui could - it was already too late. At no point was Hamilton fully passed Kamui.

He was not in a compromising position though. Plenty of drivers go side by side into corners. Taking the racing line and giving yourself a wide entry is in fact the best way to make a pass at the following corner since you can cut back inside the other driver and benefit from a better exit (watch Petrov's move on Rosberg last year).

what do you mean?

Hamilton was the whole straight in front of Kamui. Kobayashi never had a chance for a clean passing manoeuvre.

I mean Hamilton was never fully passed Kamui.

Kobayashi was alongside Hamilton for the 2nd half of Kemmel straight.

[FrukostScones]

do you mean "past" kamui, of course he cant be past kamui because he always was in front of him. He passed him on the way to eau rouge.

And Kobayashi in the end was not in the position to claim the racing line... but then he just steered right into Hamilton. There was enough space left for Kobayashi.

is my english so bad that I can't understand you guys...

[myurr]

I mean Hamilton was never fully passed Kamui.

Kobayashi was alongside Hamilton for the 2nd half of Kemmel straight.

Yes he was. He was fully passed until Kamui pulled out of the slip stream to pull half alongside. Go back to that video link I posted which was from Hamilton's car and you'll see that Kamui's car was never visible from that on board shot so wasn't as close as you have been presuming. The external camera angles are deceptive in that they appear to show Kamui further alongside than I believe he was having looked at the on board footage.

[andartop]

Seriously guys, a perfectly reasonable explanation for Lewis' on and off track behavior could be that he reads all these things you keep posting.
Another thread wasted.
On to the next incident...err, I meant race.

[Gerhard Berger]

do you mean "past" kamui, of course he cant be past kamui because he always was in front of him. He passed him on the way to eau rouge.

And Kobayashi in the end was not in the position to claim the racing line... but then he just steered right into Hamilton. There was enough space left for Kobayashi.

is my english so bad that I can't understand you guys...

Kobayashi was on the racing line, Hamilton was not.

Kobayashi only steered right after the contact was made. Before that he remained straight, while Lewis was veering to the left.

[Gerhard Berger]

I mean Hamilton was never fully passed Kamui.

Kobayashi was alongside Hamilton for the 2nd half of Kemmel straight.

Yes he was. He was fully passed until Kamui pulled out of the slip stream to pull half alongside. Go back to that video link I posted which was from Hamilton's car and you'll see that Kamui's car was never visible from that on board shot so wasn't as close as you have been presuming. The external camera angles are deceptive in that they appear to show Kamui further alongside than I believe he was having looked at the on board footage.

or perhaps the on board is deceptive?

[Lycoming]

when hamilton started to move back across, kobayashi DID NOT have to lift; he had space on the left. Yes, he would have been on the kerbs, but not the grass. Bottom line, as I have said before, both drivers were surprised by the situation they found themselves in under braking for les combes.