2016 Bahrain Grand Prix - Bahrain, April 01-03

[dren]

Mercedes will fix their starts and drive off to the win, they will manage Ferrari all the way to the end. Toro Rosso will be the best of the rest.

[godlameroso]

Back to the race, it's going to be very brisk at night. The desert does not retain heat, so when there is no sun it tends to get cool. Temepratures for the weekend are expected to be around 18c at night. We may even get a shower during the week in the area. The cold is going to help tire wear, but it could also hurt it in the sense that some drivers just can't get the tire working, this is made even trickier because there's always a fine layer of sand on the circuit. Graining is always a problem, also the current Pirelli's may work differently here than they did last year, meaning the strategy that worked last year may not work exactly the same this year, on top of that there's more variabilty to the strategy with the additional compound.

What can we draw from Australia to sort of get a picture of how things will pan out for this round? Are we going to see more people get the tire strategy completely backwards like Button did? Bahrain seems to have it's fair share of safety cars, there's usually at least one each race if memory serves, then again we don't have Maldonado. Although Gutierrez and Alonso seem determined to take over that aspect.

[godlameroso]

Mercedes will fix their starts and drive off to the win, they will manage Ferrari all the way to the end. Toro Rosso will be the best of the rest.

I wouldn't be so sure. This track seems to favor the Ferrari for whatever reason, they can work the tires better than Mercedes can. If Mercedes doesn't have at least a .7 second advantage per lap or higher, then it's simply going to be a race of who makes the least mistakes.

At least the consistent weather will allow them to iron out any kinks, because this championship is going to be decided by whoever makes the least mistakes. If you have a comfortable gap, then you can manage that gap and save the car, save yourself etc. If you don't have a comfortable gap, you will be(ns) on (h)edge the whole time, you'll be closer to the limit, closer to making a mistake.

You're going to tell me that if Vettel didn't make any mistakes last race that he couldn't have won? He made many mistakes, SS after the safety car, locking up and going into the grass while chasing Hamilton, terrible pit stop? Hamilton made a crap start, but made a good call after the safety car, almost went into the grass, and that put Vettel within DRS range. One more mistake and he would have lost. Rosberg made the least mistakes out of all of them and where did he end up?

Look at Button, the McLaren actually had very decent pace, probably on par with anyone besides Ferrari or Mercedes, but they just made strategic mistake after mistake. Starting on softs, then switching to SS, then finally after falling back to 15th, they decided to make the right call and they start going very decently actually making up a position.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

McLaren and Red Bull refused to accept elimination qualifying compromise

This week therefore, teams on the Strategy Group and F1 Commission found themselves only able to vote on a revised format to elimination qualifying proposed by the FIA, where the new-style Q1 and Q2 would be extended, and Q3 would revert to how it was last year.

However, if that was a motivation for not giving teams the option of going back to last year’s system, then it failed entirely because McLaren and Red Bull refused to support it and did not vote in favour.

Without their support, the vote did not go through, meaning that F1 is heading to Bahrain with the same under-fire elimination qualifying format that was run in Australia – and little prospect of it delivering a better show in Q3 this time.

[giantfan10]

Anyway getting back on topic.
Mercedes will not be let off easy this time.
Again they will cock up the start but this time Ferrari will not make a strategy mistake.
One Merc will retire from the race.

Looking forward to all the GPRA calculations showing Merc should have / could have won the race, but they never showed their pace, kept those 2sec per lap back by carrying bags of sand. Why?

Exactly!...Because Mercedes has never cared about learning from their mistakes...and we all know they have severe reliability problems. Sure they ran the equivalent of a full season's worth of race distances during winter testing...with hardly a burp....but really, what does that prove?

Which planet do you and your kind come from?
2014
Retirements - Mercedes 5 - Ferrari 3
PU Usage (Two drivers) - Mercedes ICE 8, TC 8, MGU-H 8, ES 6, CE 8, --- Ferrari ICE 10, TC 9, MGU-H 10, ES 8, CE 10
Results - Mercedes Poles 18, Wins 16 - Ferrari Poles 0, Wins 0

2015
Retirements - Mercedes 2, Ferrari 6
PU Usage (Two drivers) - Mercedes ICE 8, TC 8, MGU-H 8, ES 6, CE 8, --- Ferrari ICE 11, TC 9, MGU-H 9, ES 9, CE 9
Results - Mercedes Poles 18, Wins 16 - Ferrari Poles 1, Wins 3

2016 (Counting)
Retirements - Mercedes 0, Ferrari 1
Results - Mercedes Poles 1, Wins 1 - Ferrari Poles 0, Wins 0

you never give up do you? in 2015 Mercedes had 2 TWO DNFs due to engine mechanical fault Ferrari had 1 ONE DNF due to engine mechanical fault. you can try to twist that any way you want. those are the facts.
you can now carry on telling everyone how many wins mercedes had and how many seconds they won by or whatever spin you want to put on it

[Mr.G]

Double clutch? Don't they use a clutch with multi plates in F1 cars?

Yes the clutches are all multi plates.. but the controls were two paddles, that had two stages of maximum "clutch bite" that the driver selects in sequence to get a nice soft launch that wont impart too much wheels spin. First stage has a softer bite and the second stage has a hard bite.
With the new rule there is only one stage of bite so is not as easy to get a smooth launch. The driver has to "let out" the clutch more carefully now.

I ment this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission Or did they use only one clutch?

[PlatinumZealot]

Double clutch? Don't they use a clutch with multi plates in F1 cars?

Yes the clutches are all multi plates.. but the controls were two paddles, that had two stages of maximum "clutch bite" that the driver selects in sequence to get a nice soft launch that wont impart too much wheels spin. First stage has a softer bite and the second stage has a hard bite.
With the new rule there is only one stage of bite so is not as easy to get a smooth launch. The driver has to "let out" the clutch more carefully now.

I ment this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission Or did they use only one clutch?

I don't remember will have to check. But It could still be single clutch like in the lexus LFA. Single cltuch tends to be lighter but a bit rougher.
The dual clutches with their two input shafts and two cltuches are smoother... Probably faster shift but much heavier. The weight might offset the slightly faster shift i think.

[giantfan10]

Once again, Ferrari would be unable to show their true pace, as the farce set to continue.

F1 forced to keep elimination qualifying for Bahrain GP

Anyway getting back on topic.
Mercedes will not be let off easy this time.
Again they will cock up the start but this time Ferrari will not make a strategy mistake.
One Merc will retire from the race.

Looking forward to all the GPRA calculations showing Merc should have / could have won the race, but they never showed their pace, kept those 2sec per lap back by carrying bags of sand. Why?

Thanks for keeping faith in me.
Another idiot agrees with me on your statement.

“Mercedes can hide their superiority,” Helmut Marko, the outspoken Red Bull official, told Auto Bild. “If they want, they could lap the entire field.”

“I think it’s more or less what we expected,” Kimi Raikkonen, referring to Ferrari’s closeness to Mercedes in the race, is quoted by El Confidencial.
“On Saturday people went crazy because the difference in qualifying was very large, but there were special circumstances. In the race, it was more or less what we expected,” he added.
McLaren-Honda’s Jenson Button agrees: “Ferrari are definitely closer, which is good. It’s great for the sport and we need that.”
hmmm do i trust Marko who always has an agenda or do i trust 2 drivers? this is all from the link you posted ..thanks
From Lauda who must have read all the nonsense you post here
when asked if Mercedes was really worried about being beaten by Ferrari in Australia, F1 legend and team chairman Lauda insisted: “I was very worried.”
“We almost lost to them, did you not see it?”
“Ferrari threatened to win the race, there is no ‘but’ about it,”
As for claims Mercedes is exaggerating the closeness of the gap for the sake of the show, he answered: “Rubbish. The truth is that there was no gap at all between the two cars. It was only the red flag that saved our life otherwise they would have won.

[dans79]

hmmm do i trust Marko who always has an agenda or do i trust 2 drivers?

Should someone with an agenda be trusted?

Hmmm, that sounds like someone else I know!

[giantfan10]

hmmm do i trust Marko who always has an agenda or do i trust 2 drivers?

Should someone with an agenda be trusted?

Hmmm, that sounds like someone else I know!

funny the poster i responded to linked an article with some outlandish claim from Marko.... i just posted the other quotes in that same article and a few others from the same website...
are you also aligned with the idea that Mercedes can lap the field if they want to? sheesh thats a lot of sandbags

[dans79]

are you also aligned with the idea that Mercedes can lap the field if they want to? sheesh thats a lot of sandbags

No...

I'll just have to assume you didn't understand what i said.

[SectorOne]

Yes the clutches are all multi plates.. but the controls were two paddles, that had two stages of maximum "clutch bite" that the driver selects in sequence to get a nice soft launch that wont impart too much wheels spin. First stage has a softer bite and the second stage has a hard bite.
With the new rule there is only one stage of bite so is not as easy to get a smooth launch. The driver has to "let out" the clutch more carefully now.

I ment this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission Or did they use only one clutch?

I don't remember will have to check. But It could still be single clutch like in the lexus LFA. Single cltuch tends to be lighter but a bit rougher.
The dual clutches with their two input shafts and two cltuches are smoother... Probably faster shift but much heavier. The weight might offset the slightly faster shift i think.

They don´t use double clutch transmissions. Compared to DCT´s they are lighter, faster and smaller volume.

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/seam ... arbox.html

[mcdenife]

Exactly!...Because Mercedes has never cared about learning from their mistakes...and we all know they have severe reliability problems. Sure they ran the equivalent of a full season's worth of race distances during winter testing...with hardly a burp....but really, what does that prove?

Which planet do you and your kind come from?
2014
Retirements - Mercedes 5 - Ferrari 3
PU Usage (Two drivers) - Mercedes ICE 8, TC 8, MGU-H 8, ES 6, CE 8, --- Ferrari ICE 10, TC 9, MGU-H 10, ES 8, CE 10
Results - Mercedes Poles 18, Wins 16 - Ferrari Poles 0, Wins 0

2015
Retirements - Mercedes 2, Ferrari 6
PU Usage (Two drivers) - Mercedes ICE 8, TC 8, MGU-H 8, ES 6, CE 8, --- Ferrari ICE 11, TC 9, MGU-H 9, ES 9, CE 9
Results - Mercedes Poles 18, Wins 16 - Ferrari Poles 1, Wins 3

2016 (Counting)
Retirements - Mercedes 0, Ferrari 1
Results - Mercedes Poles 1, Wins 1 - Ferrari Poles 0, Wins 0

you never give up do you? in 2015 Mercedes had 2 TWO DNFs due to engine mechanical fault Ferrari had 1 ONE DNF due to engine mechanical fault. you can try to twist that any way you want. those are the facts.
you can now carry on telling everyone how many wins mercedes had and how many seconds they won by or whatever spin you want to put on it

Are you suggesting that Ferrari was more reliable than Mercedes in 2015?

[GPR-A duplicate2]

you never give up do you? in 2015 Mercedes had 2 TWO DNFs due to engine mechanical fault Ferrari had 1 ONE DNF due to engine mechanical fault. you can try to twist that any way you want. those are the facts.
you can now carry on telling everyone how many wins mercedes had and how many seconds they won by or whatever spin you want to put on it

Me, giving up? No way. The point is, Ferrari manufactured parts that, besides being behind on performance level,THEY CLEARLY KNEW wouldn't last as long and hence kept changing. Look at the PU usage. THAT IS HOW reliability is looked at. Not through whims and fancies.
And who cares really, as long as those cars can rack up 16 wins and 18 poles and 12 1-2 finishes a year?

[Racer X]

Force India will probably try to do a one stop strategy I'f possible that's what they tried to do at Australia but Fernando Alonso taking over Crashtor Maldonados duties ruined the Force India strategy to get both cars into the points'.