1/4 Scale R/C F1 (Regarding Chassis and suspension)

[747heavy]

R/C car 1/5 scale European F1 championship

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlQ34Sij ... re=related

[mep]

Are they all using the same car(FG)?
They all look the same.
Is it even allowed to use your own selfmade car?
I still think a good selfmade car can outperform those FG cars.
You just need a skilled driver but I think it will be easy to find one.
I once read that they allow only cars you can buy in a shop to give everybody the same chances and to prevent massive investment of money.
Well you still need a lot of money for such a car but it's just this single company that gets it. I don't recoment to buy their cars. I think their technical level is low.


@newyorkkopter
for you it is priority 1 to get access to some machines.
I think its quite funny here that its mainly marcush and me (the german guys) who are complaining about the machines. Must be a special habit.

[wrcsti]

@newyorkkopter
for you it is priority 1 to get access to some machines.
I think its quite funny here that its mainly marcush and me (the german guys) who are complaining about the machines. Must be a special habit.

Not just machines but before focusing on suspension we have to look at the chasis itself. I would recomend a pan chasis consisting of either CF for an electric or aluminum for a nitro. You will need the bottom and top. First design the bottom to be able to hold the engine in the right place and angle and the transmision no matter if you are going direct drive. You then need to see how much room you would need to mount your rear diff and allow room to mount the suspension mount for both the front and back. Then asses were to add the electronics including but not limited to servo placement, battery placement, types of rods for the servos. After all that is done and ready then i would consider what suspension to run. Since you are doing scale i bet you would go for individual link all around but for some reason a T plate with 3 springs seems to make massive grip on these cars on the rear. Front can use individual ends more similar to an F1 car.


This may be an oval car but it should give you an idea what that waterfall of text means
http://www.teamcoyoteracing.com/OurProducts.html

[newyorkkopter]

How fast are thoise FG F1's?

for you it is priority 1 to get access to some machines.
I think its quite funny here that its mainly marcush and me (the german guys) who are complaining about the machines. Must be a special habit

Hey man, one can dremel do alot with a dremel right?

So wrc, why do you recommend a pan chassis? Are there signifigant with a pan chassis over a monocoque?
Also, can you explain the T plate setup?
-Thanks

[mep]

for you it is priority 1 to get access to some machines.
I think its quite funny here that its mainly marcush and me (the german guys) who are complaining about the machines. Must be a special habit

Hey man, one can dremel do alot with a dremel right?

Don't trust those commercials.

[747heavy]

the speed of the cars will depent on the track, the gear ratio and how powerful your engine is.
The 1/5 cars are normally not the fastest class, as the car is quite heavy.
I would say the 1/5 cars on most tracks will have ~90-100 km/h top speed.
(but it´s a while since I have seen them, so could be a bit more by now)

The fastest cars used to be 1/8 scale nitro cars with 3.50cm^3 engines.
Here the top speed is over 100km/h during the races.
There are some record runs where these cars make >170 km/h, but most tracks are not long enough to reach this speed.
Keep in mind that the 1/5 and 1/8 race cars with petrol/methanol engines (called Nitros) have a 2 speed gearbox, which will shift automaticlly at a certain rpm, and they have centrifugal clutches to start/stop.
A bit like a scooter if you have driven one.

[wrcsti]

How fast are thoise FG F1's?

for you it is priority 1 to get access to some machines.
I think its quite funny here that its mainly marcush and me (the german guys) who are complaining about the machines. Must be a special habit

Hey man, one can dremel do alot with a dremel right?

So wrc, why do you recommend a pan chassis? Are there signifigant with a pan chassis over a monocoque?
Also, can you explain the T plate setup?
-Thanks

Light weight and still really strong. And the Tplate is rather hard to explain but the best i can tell you is. Its what every pan car has used since the 90s and it hasnt been changed cause its that good.

Pretty much there is a flexi T connecting the rear end to the main chasis, usually from the same chasis, and on top multiple springs to control the flexing in those directions. You can control the flexing in many ways depending on how the springs are set up, you can run a single or tripple but i have seen one guy try 5 of them but it wasnt any better than 3. Just look around for pictures of pan cars to see what this all means.

[marcush.]

siliziumcarbid and diamond cutters are the things you need to get a dremel working satisfactory nut still :
at some point precision is what you need and honestly speaking a dremel is not .
so it comes down a lot to HOW you design your bits to be sure you can realla build precision without access to precision tools

So most important: you need a means of precision measuring of your key points.

[newyorkkopter]

The 1/5 cars are normally not the fastest class, as the car is quite heavy.

I wasn't thinking of it like that, but that does makes sense(the bit about the weight)

at some point precision is what you need and honestly speaking a dremel is not .
so it comes down a lot to HOW you design your bits to be sure you can realla build precision without access to precision tools

ahh you do have a point. But for now, maybe I could get somewhat close without the full precision tools

So with pan cars, the rear part of the frame moves and pushes the shock absorber right?

[flynfrog]

The 1/5 cars are normally not the fastest class, as the car is quite heavy.

I wasn't thinking of it like that, but that does makes sense(the bit about the weight)

at some point precision is what you need and honestly speaking a dremel is not .
so it comes down a lot to HOW you design your bits to be sure you can realla build precision without access to precision tools

ahh you do have a point. But for now, maybe I could get somewhat close without the full precision tools

So with pan cars, the rear part of the frame moves and pushes the shock absorber right?

that is correct. some of the old cars didnt even have a shock

[marcush.]

thats the chapman version:If you can´t controla problem get rid of it.Who needs suspension?

In german a pan car would be called :Hackbrett (Chopping Board)

[petter]

Are they all using the same car(FG)?
They all look the same.
Is it even allowed to use your own selfmade car?
I still think a good selfmade car can outperform those FG cars.
You just need a skilled driver but I think it will be easy to find one.
I once read that they allow only cars you can buy in a shop to give everybody the same chances and to prevent massive investment of money.
Well you still need a lot of money for such a car but it's just this single company that gets it. I don't recoment to buy their cars. I think their technical level is low.

They are not all a car from FG, there are some other suplierers (RS5, Lauterbacher, Harm and later this year Genius).
But FG was one of the first suppliers to come with a 1/5 scaled F1, and they still using the same layout...

For now, the car to beat is the RS5, a car build around a carbon monoque.
A link for RS5: http://www.rs5-modelsport.com/index.php ... &Itemid=61

They all look the same because they all use the same moulded body from FG, a look alike of the 2001 Ferrari. During this year Lightscale produced a new and wider body.
You may compeed with a selfmade car, as long as it is according the regulations.

Why do you think that the technical level of these cars is on a low level? I think you will be suprised by the level. The cars are fully ajustable suspensions, multi adjustible shocks (in- and outbound in 12 steps), self locking differentials even several compounds of tires...

Yeah, you guest it right, i drive one of these (FG F1)cars...

[747heavy]

thanks Petter,

I like the mono shock front suspension and the floor with the integrated diffusor.
That´s a nice detail - I´m not 100% it will work in so close proximity to the ground (bondary layer problem ?), but it´s nicely made.

photos of the carbon chassis Petter has posted:









wishbone with camber /caster shims - very nice !!


I have seen a 1/5 car using a Renault style mass damper



so pretty close to the real deal.

[747heavy]

power curve of a engine



1:5 rain tyre


carbon set-up wheels


electronic camber gauge


nicely machined uprights and wishbones, with anti/pro ackerman steering arm kit

[newyorkkopter]

whoa that RS5, not too shabby!
Is that one of top of line 1/5 F1s currently on the market?
Is the undertray really made with honeycomb?

I might run to complications with a pan car layout because I want to have a full undertray with an upswept diffuser at the back.
So the monocoque might still be the way to go for now

I'm not trying to take the discussion to another direction, but I have a question regarding the monocoque layout with a stressed engine

With this layout, the engine, clutch, gearbox, rear suspension, the whole rear unit, should be able to move up and down but should barely move side to side right?