1/4 Scale R/C F1 (Regarding Chassis and suspension)

[newyorkkopter]

Okay new thread; hopefully more on target
Basically this is for questions that may arise as I work on my ¼ rc F1
I think this thread works in this forum because the questions that I plan on asking for now are regarding chassis, and suspension

So the first question here
How are F1 car axles locked into place?(how are they prevented from moving in and out of the uprights?)


Even from looking at the exploded Honda I’m still not sure
So yea, how are F1 car axles locked into place?

[xpensive]

Twin angular-contact hybrid ball-bearings in X- or O-arrangement, will keep the shaft-stub axially locked.

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/prod ... link=1_3_9

[newyorkkopter]

excellent! Thanks
So my next question
How is an F1 car's engine bolted to the monocoque?

[747heavy]

some more details for your model:





this is not F1 but very very similar

[marcush.]

http://www.designworldonline.com/upload ... robear.jpg
thats what Sauber uses

to me something is missing there in terms of bearings in this picture ..would need another angular contact bearing to work..

[newyorkkopter]

WOW
amazing finds. Thanks guys

[747heavy]

http://www.designworldonline.com/upload ... robear.jpg
thats what Sauber uses

to me something is missing there in terms of bearings in this picture ..would need another angular contact bearing to work..

I think, that this is on the underside of the nut Marcus, but I could be wrong

[747heavy]

[747heavy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/ ... 042a11.jpg


http://www.f1scarlet.com/img/petronas.jpg



not F1 but shows a similar engine to chassis connection

[newyorkkopter]

747!!!
how do you do it?
Very impressive; thanks again!

The drawing, and the other pic= clearer understanding of how the engine bolts on
Very nice

So I have another question, should I go with drive cups like other r/c cars?



or should I go with something like the joints used on the '67 312 Ferrari F1?


I want the car to be VERY fast, useable on the street, and competitive on track

-Thanks for all your help!

[747heavy]

I think the drive cup is o.k. for what you want to do.
Maybe also consider a system similar to this hex with a ball at the end,
it is able to transmit higher torque, and I have seen it used on R/C cars in the past.



I don´t think, you can built a tripod axle/shaft for your model, with off the shelf parts.
And to make them, would be overkill IMHO, especially from a finacial point of view, because the opposite parts in the gearbox and spindele (hub) have quit complex geometries and would need to be hardened at the surface.
That would requiere some quite complex CNC machining IMO

I would use/ or look at the parts they use in the 1/5 scale race models, they will be up to the task at hand.

[xpensive]

http://www.designworldonline.com/upload ... robear.jpg
thats what Sauber uses

to me something is missing there in terms of bearings in this picture ..would need another angular contact bearing to work..

I belive we have discussed that pic before marcush, while it clearly shows one hybrid (cermamic) angular-contact ball-bearing (ACBB), the presence of the needle-bearing is very difficult to understand. First of all, with two ACBBs in
O- (better for stability) or X-arrangement (easier to mount), there is no need for said needle-bearing.

Moreover, you can never have three radial-bearings on the same shaft if you want it to be statically determined.

[marcush.]

Brings up another concern ...this thread on bearing carrier ..is this a good solution ? you will need to have some tolerance to be sure you can properly engage amnd tighten the carrier ,but then you will not be able to calibrate the bearings for the hub/stub shaft ,would you? the shaft will always see some misalignment so they need to go to a loose bearing tolerance to counter this? Is this something that is even practical for ceramic balls?
the needle /roller bearing thing i have seen on some BMW wheelbearing assemblies in series ,if i remember correctly...
EXP ..bearings ,that´s your world,right? ... hows your stance with this?
I would have gone for a press fit mount of the bearing carrier plus securing device .

[marcush.]

I think the drive cup is o.k. for what you want to do.
Maybe also consider a system similar to this hex with a ball at the end,
it is able to transmit higher torque, and I have seen it used on R/C cars in the past.



I don´t think, you can built a tripod axle/shaft for your model, with off the shelf parts.
And to make them, would be overkill IMHO, especially from a finacial point of view, because the opposite parts in the gearbox and spindele (hub) have quit complex geometries and would need to be hardened at the surface.
That would requiere some quite complex CNC machining IMO

I would use/ or look at the parts they use in the 1/5 scale race models, they will be up to the task at hand.

the driveshaft angularity with these short axles and comparably big joints will
be severe.as obviously the suspension travel seems big.But of course in the small confines the distance and therefore the speed these drive pins will see in doing their aligning work will not be in the same league as in the real world of race cars..

[xpensive]

Brings up another concern ...this thread on bearing carrier ..is this a good solution ? you will need to have some tolerance to be sure you can properly engage amnd tighten the carrier ,but then you will not be able to calibrate the bearings for the hub/stub shaft ,would you? the shaft will always see some misalignment so they need to go to a loose bearing tolerance to counter this? Is this something that is even practical for ceramic balls?
the needle /roller bearing thing i have seen on some BMW wheelbearing assemblies in series ,if i remember correctly...
EXP ..bearings ,that´s your world,right? ... hows your stance with this?
I would have gone for a press fit mount of the bearing carrier plus securing device .

When these type of arrangements typically has clearance/preload determined by axial tolerances in bearing and shaft/hub, I would think the thread is for locking the outer race to a hub shoulder only, when the thread itself looks to coarse to be intended for anything else? But this is really a tricky thing, to determine clearance/preload with thermal xpansion taken in account calls for Swiss-watch tolerances.

In a perfect world, with the assembly subjected to radial- and one direction axial-loads only, what we typically do is to preload the non-load bearing with springs or hydraulics and have the outer race sliding, but that's not the load-case here.