Indian GP 2011 - Buddh

[Trailer23]

WoW, the whole Massa/Hamilton debate seems to have lasted longer than Kim Kardashian marriage.

[raymondu999]

Only on F1T, Trailer

[strad]

Moving on from the overtaking bickering ....

I liked those high orange kerbs. I guess they are there so the driver is unable to cut the corner, an extra hazard to make the left/right sequence a little more demanding.

Agreed, super-harsh kerbs to stop over-kutting the corner are great. Only possible better thing – a chunk of armco there.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Just to add to this, if you watch, moments before the contact Hamilton start's to understeer away from the apex of the corner. This is a clear sign he was on the limit of the car's turning/braking capability and is probably what the FIA decided was a clear indication Hamilton was trying everything he could to abort the move.

[ringo]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion on that one too.
That Coulthard disagrees with the Koba incident is his right. But that isn't part of this topic.

Yes, but you refered to it to support your opinion. So i corrected the statement.
Kobayshi had the room but didn't use it, he was in fact turning in out of reflex or nerves.
In this case Massa turned in to try to recover his mistake from going outward in the first place.

[ringo]

I saw Hamilton on TV a few days after Spa admitting it was his fault because he hadn't realised Kobayashi was there. Also Whtmarsh said that Hamilton should have left room for Kobayshi.

So when a driver and his TP both admit something is his fault there are still people saying that it wasn't?

I am responsible for world hunger and global warming. I admit it contrary to all evidence so you cannot deny it.
Call NATO to bomb me out.

[nae]

last comment from me on the massa / ham thingy

I watch a lot of bike racing, and that imo was a block pass, the gambit of a block pass is 'either give me the corner or we both crash' bike racers dont like the pain of a minor off , it can effect / destroy the whole season. it would seem to me that someone made a choice in responce to that situation and choose to have a crash

on a different note I loved the high (orange) kerbs. which i note only one person destroyed there car on, twice

it would also seem that that same bloke has come of worse in nearly all his tangles with LH. and yet hasnt figured a way to minimise the outcome of those events.

maybe someone should realise that, it might help his future career


oh wait...


and just for added clarity I am not a perticular fan of either driver. I like the sport (if it actually is such)

</cynic>

[ringo]

Massa best stay out of the way in the future.

Instead of fighting a psychological battle, which is at a stalemate now, as neither driver will ever yield to the other, it's more beneficial for the one being overtaken to move over if he doesn't have the speed of skills to defend.
It makes racing more interesting when you can to come back in another stint. And i guess it helps his career at ferarri too if he could actually make a comeback move in the latter parts of the race.
Makes no sense crashing out to prove a pointless point.

[komninosm]

Fair point komni - They're quite similar after a fashion

It's funny because one side would blame Hamilton for both incidents and the other side would blame the other driver in both incidents.
And there are slight differences that they can use as arguments, but it is a bit hypocritical.
One could say the track was wider in that Singapore incident so more room there to give.
Others would say Webber dived back then, while Hamilton started braking before Massa now.

Or that Hamilton was hit by Webber at the ending of the curve while Massa turned in on Hamilton and hit him at the beginning of the curve. That probably means Hamilton gave a little room at the apex, provided Webber would ride the whole curb, while Massa was going to ride the curb himself giving no room whatsoever.

I think I might be swayed by this latter argument a bit.

[komninosm]

Can we keep it Technical and forget the personal stuff? I'd appreciate that as I too value others opinions.

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I saw Hamilton on TV a few days after Spa admitting it was his fault because he hadn't realised Kobayashi was there. Also Whtmarsh said that Hamilton should have left room for Kobayshi.

So when a driver and his TP both admit something is his fault there are still people saying that it wasn't?

Back to India, oddly enough we had the same denial of reality in this thread about yellow flags for Button and Hamilton, as if certain posters have a telepathic link to the car ECU that gives more reliable telemetry than the teams and FIA.

Get over it.

In theory someone could claim they were just saying those things to sugar the stewards for next cases. And what do you know, now Massa got punished. Maybe FIA didn't like his recent behaviour and gave black orders about him. Haha isn't conspiracy theorizing fun?
Anyway, what Coulthard says is true. I agree with him. Kobayashi should have braked more since he wasn't fighting for that position any more. It was lost within all reason.

Why don't you mention the denial of FIA penalty to Massa and only about Button and Hamilton?
Why don't you mention that Hamilton saw a green light and yellow flags at same time which was FIA's fault, not his?
Or that Button's case is muddy at best?
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
At the very least you should add the Massa denial to your list.

[beelsebob]

Can we keep it Technical and forget the personal stuff? I'd appreciate that as I too value others opinions.

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Oh come on... This guy had a lengthy, and rational debate in which we actually got somewhere (a rare thing in an F1T race thread) – to the crux of why we don't agree about the collision. Why spoil it with a bunch of rhetoric.

[raymondu999]

I'm not taking sides/going to be sucked into the debate, but I think Hamilton/Whitmarsh would probably say that regardless, kind of to get media attention off it and they can move along.

Did anyone catch Button's comments recently? He snapped as he was annoyed of press constantly interviewing him over his teammate rathan himself

[beelsebob]

Kerbs at the Buddh International Circuit are to be revised after Ferrari's Felipe Massa suffered two suspension failures during the Indian Grand Prix weekend.

LAAAAME!

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Seems like most people inside the sport of F1 don't agree with the stewards decision.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula ... 569488.stm


"You could argue all day about the rights and wrongs of the latest crash involving Lewis Hamilton and Felipe Massa but it was a 50-50 incident in my opinion," he wrote in his latest column on the BBC F1 website.


Seems like most people are; arguing about it all day. lol

[beelsebob]

Seems like most people inside the sport of F1 don't agree with the stewards decision.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula ... 569488.stm


"You could argue all day about the rights and wrongs of the latest crash involving Lewis Hamilton and Felipe Massa but it was a 50-50 incident in my opinion," he wrote in his latest column on the BBC F1 website.

Most people being Webber and Coulthard?