Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

[Steven]

Guys, I know it's fun discussing and defending all your heroes, but we're all discussing something that is to be decided in due course as Mercedes appealed the decision.

Can we please stop bickering now and see what the court will come up with first? I think the facts are there, and the interpretations differ, obviously (for about 30 pages already), it's no use to continue without new facts.

[vall]

Dont you get it???

The safety car was no longer deployed!!!!

Its not hard to understand. You dont even need to start looking up regulations and taking screenshots. Its all irrelivent. The SC WAS NO LONGER DEPLOYED.

Maybe because they called the Safety Car in, DUE TO THE REGULATION STATING IT WAS SUPPOSED TO COME IN BEFORE THE CHECKERED FLAG ON THE LAST LAP? Did you not think that was the very reason it came in?

If the Safety Car comes in on the final lap but still is deployed there will still be yellow flags, no green ones

I repeat, no rule says so.

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

[alberto222mx]

Dont you get it???

The safety car was no longer deployed!!!!

Its not hard to understand. You dont even need to start looking up regulations and taking screenshots. Its all irrelivent. The SC WAS NO LONGER DEPLOYED.

Maybe because they called the Safety Car in, DUE TO THE REGULATION STATING IT WAS SUPPOSED TO COME IN BEFORE THE CHECKERED FLAG ON THE LAST LAP? Did you not think that was the very reason it came in?

Absolutely NO!
The SC is called in only when the track is clear and is safe to restart the race, not because it was supposed to get in before the checkeref flag

"40.11 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP" will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car's orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten car lengths behind it.
In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.
As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be displayed until the last car crosses the Line."

[vall]

Guys, I know it's fun discussing and defending all your heroes, but we're all discussing something that is to be decided in due course as Mercedes appealed the decision.

Can we please stop bickering now and see what the court will come up with first? I think the facts are there, and the interpretations differ, obviously (for about 30 pages already), it's no use to continue without new facts.

I thought drive-thru penalties cannot be appealed?

[ISLAMATRON]

Tazio, after the first safety car Button would have ended behind Alonso anyway. Come on, had Alonso dispatched di Grassi swifter, he could have overtaken Hamilton.

Ahead of hamilton maybe, but not overtaken/passed him, not on the track... did Alonso pass anyone of importance today?

[djones]

Everything that has been said so far regarding the MS FA thing all relies on if the safety car was deployed on not. Agree??? yes you do.

Well race control said the safety car was no longer deployed.

Not becasue the rules say it will come in on the last lap, but because it was no longer deployed.

If needs be I will try and explain it simpler, but thats the bottom line.

Now, if after taking a deep breath, reading that and having a good think you can still disagree then I'd love to hear it.

[Mr. K]

I repeat, no rule says so.

40.4

cba to post it now, but someone did a few posts back i think.

also see this pic :

[Ray]

Dont you get it???

The safety car was no longer deployed!!!!

Its not hard to understand. You dont even need to start looking up regulations and taking screenshots. Its all irrelivent. The SC WAS NO LONGER DEPLOYED.

Maybe because they called the Safety Car in, DUE TO THE REGULATION STATING IT WAS SUPPOSED TO COME IN BEFORE THE CHECKERED FLAG ON THE LAST LAP? Did you not think that was the very reason it came in?

Absolutely NO!
The SC is called in only when the track is clear and is safe to restart the race, not because it was supposed to get in before the checkeref flag

"40.11 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP" will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car's orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten car lengths behind it.
In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.
As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be displayed until the last car crosses the Line."

Your argument is trumped by 40.13. That takes precedence over it because there was no more racing to do because it was the last lap. The procedures for the END of the race, being the last lap with the Safety Car on track, completely mitigate the procedures for RESTARTING a race that is already considered over because it's the last lap with the SC deployed due to an accident that couldn't be cleared soon enough for a racing lap to be finished.

[Mr. K]

Everything that has been said so far regarding the MS SC thing all relies on if the safety car was deployed on not. Agree??? yes you do.

Well race control said the safety car was no longer deployed.

Not becasue the rules say it will come in on the last lap, but because it was no longer deployed.

If needs be I will try and explain it simpler, but thats the bottom line.

Now, if after taking a deep breath, reading that and having a good think you can still disagree then I'd love to hear it.

sadly people still will disagree. i see it the same way as you do and find it pretty simple. im baffled to see some people (including the stewards) apparently don't understand this

[vall]

Absolutely NO!
The SC is called in only when the track is clear and is safe to restart the race, not because it was supposed to get in before the checkeref flag

how do you know? 40.13 says it must get in if it is the last lap.

[Ray]

Tazio, after the first safety car Button would have ended behind Alonso anyway. Come on, had Alonso dispatched di Grassi swifter, he could have overtaken Hamilton.

Ahead of hamilton maybe, but not overtaken/passed him, not on the track... did Alonso pass anyone of importance today?

Agree, there was no indication that Alonso could have even caught up to Lewis, much less passed him.

[Hangaku]

My my, didn't today's race see an influx of new posters, purely for the sake of defending their heroes?

Really, admin needs to clean this crap up. Post-race, this place isn't a nice place to visit any more.

[WhiteBlue]

The other ten cars he passed were in the pits when he passed them because they had been stuck behind cars that were much slower than Alonso's Ferrari.

So they got stuck behind slower cars and he passed them, did he not get stuck behind slower cars himself? Does that not mean that the cars he got stuck behind were slow since he passed other cars that were stuck behind the very same slow cars?

Alonso did not manage to pass a single driver who had a car established before last year. He easily had 4.5 seconds a lap on those. His fastest lap up to lap 19 - when Barichello pitted - was a 1:17.968. Di Grassi who had a medium speed of that six cars group had a fastest lap to that point of 1:22.316.

Perhaps Rubens jumped the start and race control like the inept stewards did not care, or the racing line was way faster than the dirty side. Rubens than proceeded well below the pace of the leaders in a defensive mode but as his car was capable to go fast in the tunnel the classical pass at the harbor chicane wasn't possible for Schumacher. Rubens eventually pitted in lap 19 and kept his new position until he crashed in lap 30.

Barichello's fastest lap on softs was 1:19.688 and he held up Schumacher who pitted with him on lap 19. MSC never got below 1:19.562 despite the car beeing able to run 1:17.538 as Rosberg showed in lap 20. It shows that Alonso could not have caught up with the Mercs if they had not been behind Rubens. In fact Alonso could not catch Hamilton who's fastest up to lap 19 was 1:17.657. QED!

When Alonso had absorbed all his gifted places in lap 21 - when Alguersuari finished the pit cycle - that was the end of his "passing". All the nine guys that fell into his clutches in the pits were stuck in the Barichello train. He got hem all due to clever pit strategy and not due to good on track racing. He can claim the strategy for himself and that would show good thinking but I would not call this an amazing display of racing.

This bit of lap time analysis shows how phony Alonso's "heroism" actually was.

[ISLAMATRON]

Again I ask...

Who presses the button so the lights change from yellow to green? Is that Charlie Whiting? Or is that controlled at each individual corner station?