Following today's last corner events during the Monaco GP, the stewards have carefully considered the overtaking matter of Michael Schumacher over Fernando Alonso. The team judged Schumacher was not allowed to overtake and handed him a 20 second penalty.
Rule states it must enter the pit lane if it is deployed on the final lap. That means, at some point, they must call the safety car in before the checkered flag is crossed by the leader. Usually this happens since pit entrance and the pit lane, where the safety car frequently is kept, is before start/finish. All of this means that they must call in the safety car before pit entrance so the lights go out, normal procedure to let them know it's leaving the track, and it would then no longer be deployed. This is nothing new regarding how the safety car leaves the track, and means that they called it in according to the regulations. Common sense and a bit of intelligence would see this through to the correct solution, anything else is grasping straws. If they weren't going to abide by the letter of the rules, please tell me exactly how the Safety Car would exit the track in accordance with normal procedure?Mr. K wrote:sadly people still will disagree. i see it the same way as you do and find it pretty simple. im baffled to see some people (including the stewards) apparently don't understand thisdjones wrote:Everything that has been said so far regarding the MS SC thing all relies on if the safety car was deployed on not. Agree??? yes you do.
Well race control said the safety car was no longer deployed.
Not becasue the rules say it will come in on the last lap, but because it was no longer deployed.
If needs be I will try and explain it simpler, but thats the bottom line.
Now, if after taking a deep breath, reading that and having a good think you can still disagree then I'd love to hear it.
What did you smoke? There are no policemen in F1. They are called safety car, and we have covered that item.Moanlower wrote:When i'm arriving at a crossroad with traffic lights on green and a policeman in the middle of the road guiding the traffic and tells me to stop I have to stop even though it shows green. Some rules are simply inferior to others.
The SC turn off his lights before entering the pitlane, that means that is no longer deployed...vall wrote:how do you know? 40.13 says it must get in if it is the last lap.alberto222mx wrote:Absolutely NO!
The SC is called in only when the track is clear and is safe to restart the race, not because it was supposed to get in before the checkeref flag
and 40.11 defines when the flags are being changed from yellow to greenvall wrote:how do you know? 40.13 says it must get in if it is the last lap.
If you watch the video in a previous page with RB in you will see race control sent the statement out that the safety car was no longer deployed.Ray wrote:Rule states it must enter the pit lane if it is deployed on the final lap. That means, at some point, they must call the safety car in before the checkered flag is crossed by the leader. Usually this happens since pit entrance and the pit lane, where the safety car frequently is kept, is before start/finish. All of this means that they must call in the safety car before pit entrance so the lights go out, normal procedure to let them know it's leaving the track, and it would then no longer be deployed. This is nothing new regarding how the safety car leaves the track, and means that they called it in according to the regulations. Common sense and a bit of intelligence would see this through to the correct solution, anything else is grasping straws. If they weren't going to abide by the letter of the rules, please tell me exactly how the Safety Car would exit the track in accordance with normal procedure?Mr. K wrote:sadly people still will disagree. i see it the same way as you do and find it pretty simple. im baffled to see some people (including the stewards) apparently don't understand thisdjones wrote:Everything that has been said so far regarding the MS SC thing all relies on if the safety car was deployed on not. Agree??? yes you do.
Well race control said the safety car was no longer deployed.
Not becasue the rules say it will come in on the last lap, but because it was no longer deployed.
If needs be I will try and explain it simpler, but thats the bottom line.
Now, if after taking a deep breath, reading that and having a good think you can still disagree then I'd love to hear it.
He made the best of the cards he was dealt, even though he was the one who dealt them to himself. He did a damn good job driving on a set of tires, staying with the front runners mind you, on a set of tires that lasted him effectively 70 laps. If you can think of a better outcome to his race I'd love to hear it. But to bash a dude for using his head on a very tough course to race on and taking advantage of good strategy is a good race to me. He did a great job given what he was, not to mention that Kimi did the same thing, hit another driver in tricky conditions, did it with more cars on track to start and finished two places behind his teammate. That's good driving in my book.WhiteBlue wrote:Alonso did not manage to pass a single driver who had a car established before last year. He easily had 4.5 seconds a lap on those. His fastest lap up to lap 19 - when Barichello pitted - was a 1:17.968. Di Grassi who had a medium speed of that six cars group had a fastest lap to that point of 1:22.316.Ray wrote:WhiteBlue wrote:
The other ten cars he passed were in the pits when he passed them because they had been stuck behind cars that were much slower than Alonso's Ferrari.
So they got stuck behind slower cars and he passed them, did he not get stuck behind slower cars himself? Does that not mean that the cars he got stuck behind were slow since he passed other cars that were stuck behind the very same slow cars?
Perhaps Rubens jumped the start and race control like the inept stewards did not care, or the racing line was way faster than the dirty side. Rubens than proceeded well below the pace of the leaders in a defensive mode but as his car was capable to go fast in the tunnel the classical pass at the harbor chicane wasn't possible for Schumacher. Rubens eventually pitted in lap 19 and kept his new position until he crashed in lap 30.
Barichello's fastest lap on softs was 1:19.688 and he held up Schumacher who pitted with him on lap 19. MSC never got below 1:19.562 despite the car beeing able to run 1:17.538 as Rosberg showed in lap 20. It shows that Alonso could not have caught up with the Mercs if they had not been behind Rubens. In fact Alonso could not catch Hamilton who's fastest up to lap 19 was 1:17.657. QED!
When Alonso had absorbed all his gifted places in lap 21 - when Alguersuari finished the pit cycle - that was the end of his "passing". All the nine guys that fell into his clutches in the pits were stuck in the Barichello train. He got hem all due to clever pit strategy and not due to good on track racing. He can claim the strategy for himself and that would show good thinking but I would not call this an amazing display of racing.
This bit of lap time analysis shows how phony Alonso's "heroism" actually was.
Again, what were they supposed to do to call in the Safety Car in accordance with 40.13 for the end of the race? Please make me understand how they can accomplish having the SC on track and not having it on track at the same time. You're not answering a very simple question and instead ignoring reality.djones wrote:
If you watch the video in a previous page with RB in you will see race control sent the statement out that the safety car was no longer deployed.
If the safety car was still deployed it would have still come in I totally agree.
But the reason it came in was not because the race was finishing under the SC procedure, it was becasue the SC was no longer needed.
Had the race been 1 lap more the SC would have come in when it did becasue the SC was over.
I would not call it amazing display of racing either, but this is Monaco: in normal circumstances you cannot overtake.WhiteBlue wrote: Alonso did not manage to pass a single driver who had a car established before last year. He easily had 4.5 seconds a lap on those. His fastest lap up to lap 19 - when Barichello pitted - was a 1:17.968. Di Grassi who had a medium speed of that six cars group had a fastest lap to that point of 1:22.316.
....
He can claim the strategy for himself and that would show good thinking but I would not call this an amazing display of racing.
No idea but it is likely to be charlie Whiting or someone who is under his command. He is the race director and has to call the shot on stuff like that I guess.ISLAMATRON wrote:Again I ask...
ISLAMATRON wrote:Who presses the button so the lights change from yellow to green? Is that Charlie Whiting? Or is that controlled at each individual corner station?
It's clearly an insult, but not all insults are racist. There are other kinds of insults too. People use the race card too much, or the Hitler-card :pISLAMATRON wrote:Ask yourself is Lewis Hamilton a "small boy"... he is clearly not, and using J.E.T's comments about Hamilton since he has joined this Forum it is clear that he used the term in a racist manner to denegrate Hamilton.komninosm wrote: "Small boy" is not a racist term. The (sometimes) racist term is "boy". "Small boy" is ageism not racism
I was not aware that "small boy" raced Formula 1 cars thru the streets of Monaco, every driver bitches and moans on the radio yet J.E.T. takes it upon himself to choose to call him a "small boy" based off of a 2 second sound snippet every other race or so. If J.E.T. sees it fit to call Hamilton a "small boy" based off such small sound bites why is it wrong to deem him a racists from the multible racist comments he has made on these boards.
Would some of you who consider "small boy" to not be a racist term like to walk up to the first black man you see on the street and call him that to test your theory?
I merely asking J.E.T. to stop his racist comments, he can critisize the man all he wants but he does not have the right to infect this forum with his racism.
in this case the SC period was over, coz the race was overalberto222mx wrote:Another rule to consider:
"40.4 When the order is given to deploy the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED" will be displayed on the timing monitors and all marshal's posts will display waved yellow flags and "SC" boards for the duration of the intervention."
Clearly when the yellow flags change to green the intervention of the SC is over
I dont know how I can explain my thoughts on this any simpler.Ray wrote:Again, what were they supposed to do to call in the Safety Car in accordance with 40.13 for the end of the race? Please make me understand how they can accomplish having the SC on track and not having it on track at the same time. You're not answering a very simple question and instead ignoring reality.djones wrote:
If you watch the video in a previous page with RB in you will see race control sent the statement out that the safety car was no longer deployed.
If the safety car was still deployed it would have still come in I totally agree.
But the reason it came in was not because the race was finishing under the SC procedure, it was becasue the SC was no longer needed.
Had the race been 1 lap more the SC would have come in when it did becasue the SC was over.
Where did Schumi touch you? Can you show us on this doll?Ray wrote:zenithbeach wrote:he was told by HIS TEAM that he should go for it and try to overtake! his team is clearly a cheat. damn.. no wait! everyones a cheat!Ray wrote:Schumacher is a damn cheat. If it was okay to overtake after the SC came in, why was he the only one that did it? Answer, he's a dirty goddamn cheat that cannot win in a straight fight. Full stop. Nothing anyone says will change that. He knows damn well why the safety car gets out of the way on the last lap, it says in the rules why the safety car goes in and what should happen afterwards. You people are so goddamn biased and the intelligence around here is dropping. I can see why Manchild left, you people are children.
schumi himself admitted in an interview later that he doesnt have ALL the rules saved up in his head, only the big ones.. like when it says safety car in and green flags/lights it means GO!
judging from the hatred in your message, neither can you lol.None of you have a shred of common sense, and none of you can make an objective observation.
He's been a cheat his entire career, you cannot deny that with the enormous amount of evidence against him. He's never played fair, and he's not in his current team. That makes you a 7 time champ, but makes you a really shitty person. He and his team knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they had that conversation, they were trying to gain a spot they very clearly could not under normal conditions. Ross Brawn is just as guilty as Michael, but Michael is in control of the machine. Anything he does and says should not be trusted in any way, shape, or form. He's consitently shown he can't and won't tell the truth. If you believe a single word that comes out of Michaels mouth, regardless the topic, I feel very sorry for you. But as the saying goes 'there's a sucker born every minute.'
I don't spew hate, you can foolishly call it what you like. I call it the truth. I don't know how long you've been lurking, and I'm not an engineer like a lot of folks around here, but the bias and stupidity around here has increased in the general chat. I lurk on the technical threads to learn about aspects of F1 I don't know about, but I don't open my mouth in there to clog up useful discussion.
There are many around here that have their lips so firmly wrapped around a few drivers nuts they can't make an objective observation. I admit I've made some mistakes, but with the rampant name-calling and general hate around here for those with a difference of opinion of a few key people it's pointless to try and correct your mistake because they'll never shut their fat mouths about anything. Some blatantly fly in the face of actual truth it's amusing.
