Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

[alberto222mx]

Another rule to consider:

"40.4 When the order is given to deploy the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED" will be displayed on the timing monitors and all marshal's posts will display waved yellow flags and "SC" boards for the duration of the intervention."

Clearly when the yellow flags change to green the intervention of the SC is over

in this case the SC period was over, coz the race was over

Then, explain me please why the green lights??
Why the SC turn off his lights??

[Jan_83]

I cannot understand that decission. The rule clearly says:"40.7 ....With the following exceptions, overtaking is forbidden until the cars reach the safetycar line after the safety car has returned to the pits. Overtaking will only be permitted under the following circumstances:...."That rule was changed/introduced this year and clearly says that Schumacher was right. Taht track was given green.
So why do we need rules if they aren't used?
That decission means if you read further in the articles, that you cannot overtake a car under safetycar even if it is in the pits becouse:"....- any car entering the pits may pass another car or the safety car remaining on the track after it has crossed the first safety car line ;" And with the decission above that rule can also not be applied in the pitstop case.

That whole case is so...its rubbish...It is so unsporty unfair. And it is unsporty and unfair from Ferrari to protest. Are weird irreproducible pollitical games the only thing that remained of that once great sport?

It's sad. It's s h i t. Excuse me.

And a personal word from me to the sporting comissioners. Before the next race go online to the FIA-page (http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/f1regs.html) and download and print the "sporting regulations". If you do not have the money or you are not able to use your printer contact me. I print it for you and mail it to you. On my costs. Promise.

[WhiteBlue]

Again I ask...

Who presses the button so the lights change from yellow to green? Is that Charlie Whiting? Or is that controlled at each individual corner station?

No idea but it is likely to be charlie Whiting or someone who is under his command. He is the race director and has to call the shot on stuff like that I guess.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... ent=safari

F1 Marshalling System - EM Motorsport
The F1 Marshalling System developed by EM Motorsport for use by the FIA is now included in the F1 technical regulations. The system, run from race control, communicates directly with every car on circuit, including safety and medical cars, in addition to the 20 electronic marshalling light panels at every circuit.

Race control effed up themselves. They control the system.

2.4.5.1 Marshal flag signals
a) Red flag
This should be shown waved only on instruction from the Clerk of the Course when it becomes necessary to stop a practice session or the race in conformity with Article 2.4.4.1 b) above.

b) Yellow flag
This is a signal of danger and should be shown to drivers in two ways with the following meanings: Single waved: Reduce your speed, do not overtake, and be prepared to change direction. There is a hazard beside or partly on the track. Double waved: Reduce your speed, do not overtake, and be prepared to change direction or stop. There is a hazard wholly or partly blocking the track.

Yellow flags should normally be shown only at the marshal post immediately preceding the hazard.

In some cases, however, the Clerk of the Course may order them to be shown at more than one marshal post preceding an incident.

Overtaking is not permitted between the first yellow flag and the green flag displayed after the incident...

f) Green flag
This should be used to indicate that the track is clear: it should be waved at the marshal post immediately after the incident that necessitated the use of one or more yellow flags...

2.4.5.2 Marshal light signals
The above-mentioned signals may be effected using lights or light panels as described in Article 2.4.3.
If the signal to stop the race is given with a red light or panel, it shall be entirely under the control of the Clerk of the Course.

[Ray]

Where did Schumi touch you? Can you show us on this doll?

[komninosm]

Why did they change the rule about the starting line of the race after a SC returns to the pits anyway? What was the reason? It doesn't seem to make any difference in the middle of the race and creates this problem at the end of a race.

edit: I mean that, after most restarts, the race starts when they cross the white SC line and not when they cross the start/finish line.

[Ray]

I cannot understand that decission. I have found no rule that says if the safetycar comes in and it is the last lap then overtaking is not allowed. T\

40.13 If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

Safety car was deployed at the start of the last lap, they called it in, in accordance with the rule above because you can't have the Safety Car in two places at the same time according to the laws of physics, and the rule states there will be no overtaking after it enters the pit lane on the last lap and the cars are to maintain position in accordance with the leaders speed. It's written 6 regulation numbers after the one you read.

[Mahalollama]

Schumacher passed Alonso just as the safety car pulled in at the end of Lap 78. The FIA stewards, which included his old sparring partner Damon Hill, have deemed the German breached Article 40.13 of the Sporting Regulations, which states that “if the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking."

After reading some 10 pages wherein many are picking this decision apart, I just don't understand why there is so much of an argument. It's not very enjoyable anymore to wade through page after page of debate where the 'spirit of the law' is so clear.
I disagree with the harshness of the penalty handed down to MS - I can see a simple restoration of his pre-action place (7th) and be done with it. That would balance out the possible mistakes by the flagmen and any so called 'confusion' by MS and Brawn (who clearly know better from experience and understand the spirit of this last lap very well).

As the last lap began under SC, I instinctively knew the result of the race right then and I believe most watching did also. It was unfortunate - any race that ends under SC / Caution is a let down but that is that.

I watched Brawn speak and give evidence but it just looked like one of those explanations that are put forth after getting called out on taking advantage of unclear wording of the law (or a loophole) even though the spirit of the law is well known by all parties. I wish I could be clearer in my wording but I am tired (from reading 10 pages of this....LOL).

That is my $0.02 and I think it was a pretty enjoyable GP of Monaco and all bad things aside, look forward to putting these things behind.

Please people, just pause and take a breath before getting so heated up at each other. We all love this sport to one degree or another, right?

[djos]

Why is everybody missing the fact that Webber drove an awesome race in an awesome car to win the most important event on the callender?
The bickerings of all these past world champions should be of little importance, they should all get their teams to build cars that work properly.

I'm no Webbo fan myself, but it's a shame isn't it? Brazil last year too. Nobody noticed that he had won the bloody thing.

I think all the Webbo doubters are in denial and have found a controversy to latch onto to avoid admitting that Webbo is a/on fire and b/now dominating his very quick and high quality team mate.

[andrew]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/16/t ... nce-again/

Good link to F1 fanatic. Basically, badly written rules strike again.


(To express my disappointment in Ferrari over this I have changed my user picture thing. Massa and Rob Smedly are the only things they going for them. Once they go there is no earthly reason to support Ferrari! )

[djones]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/05/16/t ... nce-again/

Good link to F1 fanatic. Basically, badly written rules strike again.

This article is flawed. See my previous posts for reasons why.

[djos]

Lets mark this down then, based on the Steward's decision:

NO MATTER WHAT, if the safety car is on during the last lap, EVEN IF THE FLAGS ARE GREEN AND THE SC LIGHTS ARE OUT, rule 40.13 trumps rule 40.7.

Lets not now talk about Damon's revenge. His opinion doesnt trump all the other stewards.

Well, I just refuse to take your command then.

We know that the driver stewards have a very strong influence. They completely turned the FiA policy upside down in the first five races and stopped the silly punishments, which makes Mr. Hill's and colleque's decision even more questionable. IMHO this is completely ridiculous. You cannot turn a green light on and expect the drivers to hold back from passing.

+1

This decision is insane, im no Shumi fan but I sincerely hope Ross and Shumi successfully appeal this decision, it's retarded, a green flag is a green flag FFS!!!

[segedunum]

Basically, they took as long as they did because race control don't understand or haven't even heard of rule 40.13 and the safety car was no longer deployed. Race control clearly overrode rule 40.13 and frankly that isn't Schumacher's fault. Notice the rule has a big 'if' in it:

"if the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking"

This does not give the stewards carte blanche to apply this ruling because it talks about if the safety car is deployed when the race ends. The race had not ended. The wording of it makes no sense whatsoever.

I'd certainly appeal this. He certainly shouldn't have been penalised for it. Christ. Somebody actually does some racing that fits within the rules (for bloody once) and he gets penalised.

[segedunum]

Safety car was deployed at the start of the last lap, they called it in, in accordance with the rule above because you can't have the Safety Car in two places at the same time according to the laws of physics, and the rule states there will be no overtaking after it enters the pit lane on the last lap and the cars are to maintain position in accordance with the leaders speed. It's written 6 regulation numbers after the one you read.

It doesn't state that at all. That might be what they wanted it to state, but it doesn't. It says clearly that if the safety car is deployed (it wasn't) and if the race has ended (it hadn't).

[segedunum]

I think all the Webbo doubters are in denial and have found a controversy to latch onto to avoid admitting that Webbo is a/on fire and b/now dominating his very quick and high quality team mate.

I'm still a slight Webber doubter (although he's always been fast) and I base that on more than just the last two races. There were races besides the Nurburgring and Interlagos last year where he didn't perform. Ditto this year. Barcelona and Monaco haven't made those go away.

[zgred]

Truly impressive production - 20 pages of thread on the subject which give no chance for an agreement. I would like express my disappointment to the FIA for introducing this mess. Very harmful to the F1 image. So quoting this from other thread:



Why not to cool down like Mark :]



I just think You all are right in some point and shamefully FIA is responsible for mess.