Great. Look and learn, guys
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiHJ2x8NrUE[/youtube]
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Nico Hulkenberg has also been given a 20-second penalty by the stewards for gaining an advantage in turn 7 in the first lap of the Singapore GP. This drops the Williams driver one spot, moving Felipe Massa up to 8th.
It's not like Kubica had a much faster car at that point in the race and passed like 2 cars before passing Petrov and a couple more afterwards...Intego wrote:To me it was clear it would happen asap. I think it's not worth talking about, because Petrov is not the driver you need to secretly instruct to let pass his teammate.raymondu999 wrote:And are we enraged by the Kubica pass on Petrov yet?
From looking at those pics and watching the videos again, it seems to me that Kubica and Hamilton follow the same line, but coming into the turn, Sutil has a much better line than Webber. Sutil goes close to Kubica and exploits all the way available to his right so he can make the turn as best as possible (plus he is ahead of Kubica all the time till turn entry, almost to apex). Webber doesn't even bother to use all the room Hamilton gave him in the approach to the turn. He just goes almost straight. It's pretty ridiculous. Schumacher's crash on the same corner is kinda different, but also pretty ridiculous. They both go for a gap that isn't there to use a terminology so popular in the Monza race. It's really interesting that people who were fond of using it there are using a different tune here. =D>Poleman wrote:What is done is history now and i dont wanna flame a post war again but im making this comparison to show that Ringo may be right here:
Images both from the braking point before turn 7:ringo wrote: This is inaccurate, Lewis was the defending driver. Webber was passed completely.Webber was now the attacker.
Mark is almost completely passed (his front wing alongside Lewis rear wheel at least)
1:Hamilton has the position for the braking point-racing line
2:Webber attacking to regain place from the inside while still trying to find a good braking point (late).
3:Webber loses the braking and clips Hamiltons rear (which could be avoided).
Kubica on the other hand here is the attacker and is clearly behind Sutil reaching the breaking zone.
1: Sutil braked eaarly giving Kubica the space to pull off the pass
2:Kubica is given the space to take the exact same line as Hamilton
3:Sutil being more cautious or using his sense pushes Kubica to the point that no contact takes place.
Nothing more to add in this,just my 2 cents on the incident,having in mind Ringo's thoughts.
Of course you have the team radio to back that up...andrew wrote:Most likely there was an instruction passed to Petrov, but Renault were smarter/less arrogant than Ferrari and made went some way to make it look like an actual pass.
I imagine that Petrov was advised of Kubica's rapid approach and the rest was sensible for the team points.
No need, it's just common sense. Faster driver coming up behind a much slower driver. Let them past, but be clever about it.komninosm wrote:Of course you have the team radio to back that up...andrew wrote:Most likely there was an instruction passed to Petrov, but Renault were smarter/less arrogant than Ferrari and made went some way to make it look like an actual pass.
I imagine that Petrov was advised of Kubica's rapid approach and the rest was sensible for the team points.
andrew wrote:The Webber v Hamilton incident is frightfully simple and I can't undestand why there is still debate on this.
The way I call it is this:
Webber had the inside line.
Hamilton was on the outside.
Hamilton was ahead by circa half a car length at the most going into the corner.
Webber quite rightly isn't going to concede the corner as he had the inside line and is going to try and outbrake Hamilton.
Hamilton turns in thinking he is past Webber.
Bang, wallop Hamilton out, Webber one jammy sod with a dodgy tyre.
If anything Hamilton was naive thinking that Webber was going to give up the corner that easily and not try to outbrake him. If there was any blame to be placed (seeing as there appears to be a need to blame someone) I would say Hamilton but not by much (45/55). Realisticly the correct call has been made and it was a Racing Incident.
That's about the size of it. Hamilton has been clever enough in the past to not go to the inside of the corner, go round the outside and still stay ahead. He just misjudged it on this occasion. Kubica passed Sutil in a similar fashion, but Kubica was far enough ahead and he was a little lucky because he wouldn't have really known.andrew wrote:If anything Hamilton was naive thinking that Webber was going to give up the corner that easily and not try to outbrake him. If there was any blame to be placed (seeing as there appears to be a need to blame someone) I would say Hamilton but not by much (45/55). Realisticly the correct call has been made and it was a Racing Incident.
Yes Kubica as the pics showed was far enough ahead behind Sutil that Hamilton's move while so far behind ahead of Webber was clearly his fault [the crash]...segedunum wrote:That's about the size of it. Hamilton has been clever enough in the past to not go to the inside of the corner, go round the outside and still stay ahead. He just misjudged it on this occasion. Kubica passed Sutil in a similar fashion, but Kubica was far enough ahead and he was a little lucky because he wouldn't have really known.andrew wrote:If anything Hamilton was naive thinking that Webber was going to give up the corner that easily and not try to outbrake him. If there was any blame to be placed (seeing as there appears to be a need to blame someone) I would say Hamilton but not by much (45/55). Realisticly the correct call has been made and it was a Racing Incident.
Where do you get this nonsense from? Webber turned easily into the inside of the corner and hadn't missed any braking zone. The only reason why the collision occurred was because Hamilton turned to the inside, thought he was further ahead and didn't realise he was there. Racing incident. It was just luck as to who came off worse.komninosm wrote:Not to mention a very poor representation of the facts. The only reason Webber came up close to Hamilton was because he lost his braking zone as was shown earlier.
