2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Vettel165]

We need to see Ferrari domination until the end and Max, Lando finishing around second to fourth place. Its gonna be a hard battle with the third best car, Max if ahead should just let Lando go in Brasil. I would give everything now, for Max to bring it home and even would like Ferrari winning the WCC.

With 6 races to go, Lando needed 9 points to gain on average, with 5 races it was 11 points, and now 12 points. Max has 2 races of a advantage with 4 to go and sprint races including. In old system he has 19 points of a lead with 46 points remaining. Really hope it will be 2009 copy-paste. Cmon boys, all I can do is hope.

[search]

At some point someone here tried to make an engine overview. Is this maybe still present?

I keep track of the introductions of new parts (ICE linked below, others on request, if anyone is interested), but that list obviously doesn't include any information about what engine was used at which race, unfortunately



no idea if Verstappen ever got to use the Melbourne and/or Canada engine again, for example.

[basti313]

At some point someone here tried to make an engine overview. Is this maybe still present?

I keep track of the introductions of new parts (ICE linked below, others on request, if anyone is interested), but that list obviously doesn't include any information about what engine was used at which race, unfortunately

https://i.imgur.com/W9bWI5m.png

no idea if Verstappen ever got to use the Melbourne and/or Canada engine again, for example.

Great! Thank you!

For Canada I think the report was, it is gone. Marko said, that the Mexico ICE was already intended to be a FP engine.
If I read it correctly:
- Each engine goes 6 races. For most teams that was 5 races on the first one, then maybe Monaco. For Verstappen ICE Nr. 2 was in until Monaco, maybe had to do Canada as Nr. 3 was dead on arrival.
- ICE Nr.4 was used anywhere between Ned and USA...maybe Azer and Sin would make sense, or it was Ned and Sin. Anyways it did its 6 races and was again in the car for Mexico.
- Still puzzling...they either have another issue with maybe Nr.4 or Nr.5. Or they used one up with Bel, Ita, USA and maybe Azer which were too much load.

In any case...if they would have the ICE from Aus or Can left, they would not run an engine which is a FP engine in Mexico. I think the case is clear with your list.

[Vanja #66]

Apparently two stewards for the Mexican Grand Prix were Johnny Herbert and Tim Mayer (son of McLaren co-founder Teddy Mayer).

Do you remember that in 2021 they wanted to remove one of the stewards because he had a Honda dealership? Now British and Mclaren-linked stewards are punishing Max.

Red Bull should protest because of conflict of interests.

You know what, I agree. There definitely needs to be a protest, Norris going off track to overtake was a clear 10s penalty that simply had to be given. He released his brakes earlier than ever and had a throttle blip to get ahead of apex. I don't think he was making that corner, like Horner himself said.

As I said before, T8 was a total sham penalty, Alonso in Norris' place would have gone wide and pull off a classic switchback. Max was completely ahead by the time they left the track

[PapayaFan481]

Apparently two stewards for the Mexican Grand Prix were Johnny Herbert and Tim Mayer (son of McLaren co-founder Teddy Mayer).

Do you remember that in 2021 they wanted to remove one of the stewards because he had a Honda dealership? Now British and Mclaren-linked stewards are punishing Max.

Red Bull should protest because of conflict of interests.

You know what, I agree. There definitely needs to be a protest, Norris going off track to overtake was a clear 10s penalty that simply had to be given. He released his brakes earlier than ever and had a throttle blip to get ahead of apex. I don't think he was making that corner, like Horner himself said.

As I said before, T8 was a total sham penalty, Alonso in Norris' place would have gone wide and pull off a classic switchback. Max was completely ahead by the time they left the track

Were you watching a different race??

[Mattchu]

Well the other two stewards were French and a Mexican and they fully agreed with the ruling, but I suppose there`s some bias in them as well! I mean, have some of you even read the what they said.





How are we just brushing this off or making excuses...

[langedweil]

Well the other two stewards were French and a Mexican and they fully agreed with the ruling, but I suppose there`s some bias in them as well! I mean, have some of you even read the what they said.

How do you gain a position if you're already ahead ?

[dialtone]

Well the other two stewards were French and a Mexican and they fully agreed with the ruling, but I suppose there`s some bias in them as well! I mean, have some of you even read the what they said.

https://i.postimg.cc/YqvHs5Dq/t8.png

https://i.postimg.cc/wj5bfFzj/t4.png

How are we just brushing this off or making excuses...

I actually only half agree with the reasoning from Stewards here.

Lando was 100% making the corner in T4 but he was so deep in T4 that he was gonna lose 2+ seconds to just turn the car and go back on the throttle out of T5 while Max was going to be able to make it more comfortably had he not totally fumbled the corner in irreparable ways. You can't judge this as a complete pass from Lando after you didn't judge the pass complete in Austin.

Lando definitely passed off track here and he shouldn't be getting an easy escape because he was pushed off, he gained 2+s by cutting that chicane even after giving the place back.

[FittingMechanics]

Well the other two stewards were French and a Mexican and they fully agreed with the ruling, but I suppose there`s some bias in them as well! I mean, have some of you even read the what they said.

https://i.postimg.cc/YqvHs5Dq/t8.png

How do you gain a position if you're already ahead ?

You haven't completed the overtake, you were just entitled to the space but since you didn't manage to stay on track, the overtake is not complete and you need to give back the position. It's quite simple.

[Tvetovnato]

Well the other two stewards were French and a Mexican and they fully agreed with the ruling, but I suppose there`s some bias in them as well! I mean, have some of you even read the what they said.

https://i.postimg.cc/YqvHs5Dq/t8.png

https://i.postimg.cc/wj5bfFzj/t4.png

How are we just brushing this off or making excuses...

I actually only half agree with the reasoning from Stewards here.

Lando was 100% making the corner in T4 but he was so deep in T4 that he was gonna lose 2+ seconds to just turn the car and go back on the throttle out of T5 while Max was going to be able to make it more comfortably had he not totally fumbled the corner in irreparable ways. You can't judge this as a complete pass from Lando after you didn't judge the pass complete in Austin.

Lando definitely passed off track here and he shouldn't be getting an easy escape because he was pushed off, he gained 2+s by cutting that chicane even after giving the place back.

The key though is that Lando would have made the corner in T4 had he not been shoved off. Therefore it’s on Max to set himself up for a re-pass out of T5 when Lando would have had a too tight line into that corner. And this, ladies and gents, is what is called racing - battling each other on track by using the right strategy to place your car in the best way while giving room to your opponent. Lando wasn’t given room so he had to bail out and had all the right to keep that place.

[Seanspeed]

Yes, we need to come back to clean racing. Everyone behind each other, maybe a clean DRS pass. Not this fighting all the time...every race someone "outbraking" someone...disgusting.

We can have clean and hard racing at the same time.

That is like believing in a Star Trek future.

Simply barging people off-track is not good racing, and is in fact depriving us of better, more exciting action. When drivers are allowed to go side by side through a corner, they can often carry that battle into the next series of corners, which makes for some of the best racing action possible.

...There should never be a reason in one on one battling for any car to be able to push another off-track, period.

This is not the reality in F1 for many years now. The last real wheel to wheel battle may have been Vettel vs. Webber with Multi21...
Since 2014 especially the Merc officials strongly worked on the point that crowding your opponent on the exit is 100% acceptable as this was the signature move of Hamilton. Since then it is 100% ok to push on the outside in F1, the other driver needs to yield.

Verstappen, while hardly the only driver guilty of abusing this, has certainly been the best at highlighting why we need this change.

No. There is constant change since 2014 and every year you could see why any crowding at the outside is not good, but they still try to write rules about it. I think the divebombing thing mainly started with Dan...Max was the king on moving.

It's not exciting, it's messy and ugly.

Yes, but it is what it is. Wheel to wheel is an unrealistic thought, if you look at DTM, which had the best wheel to wheel in the last years, it barely goes without touching.

No, it isn't what it is. And you've really not been watching F1 if you think there hasn't been plenty of wheel to wheel racing.

You also seem to think very poorly of all these drivers and their skill if you think they're literally incapable of driving cleanly.

[rbirules]

Well the other two stewards were French and a Mexican and they fully agreed with the ruling, but I suppose there`s some bias in them as well! I mean, have some of you even read the what they said.

https://i.postimg.cc/YqvHs5Dq/t8.png

https://i.postimg.cc/wj5bfFzj/t4.png

How are we just brushing this off or making excuses...

I actually only half agree with the reasoning from Stewards here.

Lando was 100% making the corner in T4 but he was so deep in T4 that he was gonna lose 2+ seconds to just turn the car and go back on the throttle out of T5 while Max was going to be able to make it more comfortably had he not totally fumbled the corner in irreparable ways. You can't judge this as a complete pass from Lando after you didn't judge the pass complete in Austin.

Lando definitely passed off track here and he shouldn't be getting an easy escape because he was pushed off, he gained 2+s by cutting that chicane even after giving the place back.

The key though is that Lando would have made the corner in T4 had he not been shoved off. Therefore it’s on Max to set himself up for a re-pass out of T5 when Lando would have had a too tight line into that corner. And this, ladies and gents, is what is called racing - battling each other on track by using the right strategy to place your car in the best way while giving room to your opponent. Lando wasn’t given room so he had to bail out and had all the right to keep that place.

So how does that reconcile with a week ago when Lando wasn't given room into T12 so he had to bail out and kept the position, and he was given a 10 second penalty? Or when George pushes Bottas off in COTA, didn't stay on track himself (Max stayed on track in Mexico), kept the position gained and was only given a 5 second penalty.

I understand Lando was ahead at the apex this week but not in COTA, but he didn't complete the overtake until he was off track either time.

[basti313]

We can have clean and hard racing at the same time.

That is like believing in a Star Trek future.

Simply barging people off-track is not good racing, and is in fact depriving us of better, more exciting action. When drivers are allowed to go side by side through a corner, they can often carry that battle into the next series of corners, which makes for some of the best racing action possible.

...There should never be a reason in one on one battling for any car to be able to push another off-track, period.

This is not the reality in F1 for many years now. The last real wheel to wheel battle may have been Vettel vs. Webber with Multi21...
Since 2014 especially the Merc officials strongly worked on the point that crowding your opponent on the exit is 100% acceptable as this was the signature move of Hamilton. Since then it is 100% ok to push on the outside in F1, the other driver needs to yield.

Verstappen, while hardly the only driver guilty of abusing this, has certainly been the best at highlighting why we need this change.

No. There is constant change since 2014 and every year you could see why any crowding at the outside is not good, but they still try to write rules about it. I think the divebombing thing mainly started with Dan...Max was the king on moving.

It's not exciting, it's messy and ugly.

Yes, but it is what it is. Wheel to wheel is an unrealistic thought, if you look at DTM, which had the best wheel to wheel in the last years, it barely goes without touching.

No, it isn't what it is. And you've really not been watching F1 if you think there hasn't been plenty of wheel to wheel racing.

You also seem to think very poorly of all these drivers and their skill if you think they're literally incapable of driving cleanly.

I did not say, there is no wheel to wheel. But if there is a 90° corner and one driver can push the other one off or at least try it...they do it and it is surprisingly allowed. A long and clean multi corner battle....i fear Multi21 was one of the last ones. Mexico turn 4 is an example where they try to push others wide since they drive there.

And I do not think they are poor drivers, but wheel to wheel in a F1 car is much much more difficult than in a GT. If you touch, usually one or even both are done. And once you are close, your aero does not work and you are prone to slide into your opponent. All this is no issue in GT, you can touch and there is no sensitive aero. So it is not surprising, that they try to end the wheel to wheel quickly.

[Tvetovnato]

I actually only half agree with the reasoning from Stewards here.

Lando was 100% making the corner in T4 but he was so deep in T4 that he was gonna lose 2+ seconds to just turn the car and go back on the throttle out of T5 while Max was going to be able to make it more comfortably had he not totally fumbled the corner in irreparable ways. You can't judge this as a complete pass from Lando after you didn't judge the pass complete in Austin.

Lando definitely passed off track here and he shouldn't be getting an easy escape because he was pushed off, he gained 2+s by cutting that chicane even after giving the place back.

The key though is that Lando would have made the corner in T4 had he not been shoved off. Therefore it’s on Max to set himself up for a re-pass out of T5 when Lando would have had a too tight line into that corner. And this, ladies and gents, is what is called racing - battling each other on track by using the right strategy to place your car in the best way while giving room to your opponent. Lando wasn’t given room so he had to bail out and had all the right to keep that place.

So how does that reconcile with a week ago when Lando wasn't given room into T12 so he had to bail out and kept the position, and he was given a 10 second penalty? Or when George pushes Bottas off in COTA, didn't stay on track himself (Max stayed on track in Mexico), kept the position gained and was only given a 5 second penalty.

I understand Lando was ahead at the apex this week but not in COTA, but he didn't complete the overtake until he was off track either time.

He completed the overtake off track because he was sent off track against his will because of a driver who refuses to yield, when he had all the right in the world to stay on track. That’s the whole point.

[rbirules]

The key though is that Lando would have made the corner in T4 had he not been shoved off. Therefore it’s on Max to set himself up for a re-pass out of T5 when Lando would have had a too tight line into that corner. And this, ladies and gents, is what is called racing - battling each other on track by using the right strategy to place your car in the best way while giving room to your opponent. Lando wasn’t given room so he had to bail out and had all the right to keep that place.

So how does that reconcile with a week ago when Lando wasn't given room into T12 so he had to bail out and kept the position, and he was given a 10 second penalty? Or when George pushes Bottas off in COTA, didn't stay on track himself (Max stayed on track in Mexico), kept the position gained and was only given a 5 second penalty.

I understand Lando was ahead at the apex this week but not in COTA, but he didn't complete the overtake until he was off track either time.

He completed the overtake off track because he was sent off track against his will because of a driver who refuses to yield, when he had all the right in the world to stay on track. That’s the whole point.

First, which incident are you talking about? Both instances Lando completed the overtake off track and kept the position over Max. In COTA he got a 5 second penalty (should have been 10 but Max went off too so it was reduced to 5 seconds) for doing this. In Mexico Max gets a penalty for pushing a driver off, but Lando gets nothing for keeping a position gained while off track. Unless being ahead at the apex means you can overtake off track and keep a position (but then what does that imply about the T8 incident?) if forced off.

In COTA Russell's penalty was reduced from 10 seconds to 5 because it wasn't deliberate (despite being the overtaking driver and sending it up the inside) and he was in control of his car (despite going completely off track). In Mexico Max was defending, and pinned to the inside line. He kept 95% of his car on track but lost the position to Norris (again, completed off track) who he pushed off, but Max gets 10 seconds. How did Max not control his car better than George in those two incidents? Max is on the inside defending, George goes for a overtake and doesn't get to the apex first, how is that not deliberate? I just can't reconcile some of these events and the fallout (i.e. penalties) from them.