2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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basti313
basti313
28
Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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search wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:41
dialtone wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:39
search wrote:
no, that goes back to a different part of the rulebook:

"The first time an additional element is used: Ten (10) grid place penalty for the race."
It’s almost endearing that you folks believe that he will skip a penalty if they don’t race here.
I edited my post above for more clarity, and it's solely based on the rules. I don't care at all who it is about.
Well, I guess this is AGAIN a case of very strong opinions over rules, that those with the strongest opinion have never read.
FittingMechanics wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:44
It does sound like a loophole but is the penalty that was imposed really served if the race is cancelled?
Successful rain dancing is always a loophole in F1.
FittingMechanics wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:44
Surely not. So I think it carries over.

If you don't serve a penalty it carries over.
No.
The rules on restricted number components clearly states:
"Penalties applied under the provisions of this Article are cumulative and apply only to the
Competition where they have been incurred."


But I still think they will find a slot to run some laps.
Don`t russel the hamster!

dialtone
dialtone
121
Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:59
No.
The rules on restricted number components clearly states:
"Penalties applied under the provisions of this Article are cumulative and apply only to the
Competition where they have been incurred."


But I still think they will find a slot to run some laps.
Have they been incurred if no race has happened?

Gillian
Gillian
0
Joined: 27 May 2021, 21:46

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dialtone wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:39
search wrote:
dialtone wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:36
Of course it means race otherwise they would have given the penalty in sprint race.
no, that goes back to a different part of the rulebook:

"The first time an additional element is used: Ten (10) grid place penalty for the race."
It’s almost endearing that you folks believe that he will skip a penalty if they don’t race here.
PU penalties are bound to the race weekend, they do not carry over. That's why they came up with the rule to prevent stockpiling PU's in a weekend.

basti313
basti313
28
Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

dialtone wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 23:02
basti313 wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:59
No.
The rules on restricted number components clearly states:
"Penalties applied under the provisions of this Article are cumulative and apply only to the
Competition where they have been incurred."


But I still think they will find a slot to run some laps.
Have they been incurred if no race has happened?
If the new ICE was since yesterday in the car, yes. If not...no.
Don`t russel the hamster!

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
16
Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 12:10

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Gillian wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 23:03
dialtone wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:39
search wrote:
no, that goes back to a different part of the rulebook:

"The first time an additional element is used: Ten (10) grid place penalty for the race."
It’s almost endearing that you folks believe that he will skip a penalty if they don’t race here.
PU penalties are bound to the race weekend, they do not carry over. That's why they came up with the rule to prevent stockpiling PU's in a weekend.
But if the loophole is accurate, if you used one ICE in FP1, other one in FP2 and third in FP3 by that reading you get only one +15 penalty (stockpiling).

It probably means that they consider only ICE used for the race as a "used" component. So you can't stockpile.

You have to announce the use and then get penalty in advance.

basti313
basti313
28
Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 23:07
Gillian wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 23:03
dialtone wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:39

It’s almost endearing that you folks believe that he will skip a penalty if they don’t race here.
PU penalties are bound to the race weekend, they do not carry over. That's why they came up with the rule to prevent stockpiling PU's in a weekend.
But if the loophole is accurate, if you used one ICE in FP1, other one in FP2 and third in FP3 by that reading you get only one +15 penalty (stockpiling).

It probably means that they consider only ICE used for the race as a "used" component. So you can't stockpile.

You have to announce the use and then get penalty in advance.
Why do you not read the rules? This would clear up this question...
Don`t russel the hamster!

avantman
avantman
10
Joined: 07 Dec 2020, 19:17

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 22:44
It does sound like a loophole but is the penalty that was imposed really served if the race is cancelled?

Surely not. So I think it carries over.

If you don't serve a penalty it carries over.
How many F1 races have been cancelled? a loophole? seriously?

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 23:07

But if the loophole is accurate, if you used one ICE in FP1, other one in FP2 and third in FP3 by that reading you get only one +15 penalty (stockpiling).
No. There is no such thing as stockpiling.

Image
A lion must kill its prey.

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
16
Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 12:10

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
03 Nov 2024, 00:03
FittingMechanics wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 23:07

But if the loophole is accurate, if you used one ICE in FP1, other one in FP2 and third in FP3 by that reading you get only one +15 penalty (stockpiling).
No. There is no such thing as stockpiling.

https://i.postimg.cc/8CTTRQQ7/image.png
So it looks like Max might not need to serve the penalty if the race is cancelled.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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FittingMechanics wrote:
03 Nov 2024, 00:10
AR3-GP wrote:
03 Nov 2024, 00:03
FittingMechanics wrote:
02 Nov 2024, 23:07

But if the loophole is accurate, if you used one ICE in FP1, other one in FP2 and third in FP3 by that reading you get only one +15 penalty (stockpiling).
No. There is no such thing as stockpiling.

https://i.postimg.cc/8CTTRQQ7/image.png
So it looks like Max might not need to serve the penalty if the race is cancelled.
I agree. There is no provision in the regulations for carrying forward an engine penalty to the "next competition". That is in contrast to the sporting regulations regarding driving infringements, for which there is a written provision for carrying forward a penalty to the driver's next race if circumstances mean that it is not served in the weekend where the infringement occurred.
A lion must kill its prey.

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yeah seems like a small oversight could benefit Max if the race isn't run.

If it is not cancelled, the car probably still will be good enough for Max to nab a podium with the wet weather

pantherxxx
pantherxxx
6
Joined: 05 Jun 2018, 15:04
Location: Hungary

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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It's a win-win situation for Red Bull. If there's no race it's good, if there's a race in rainy conditions, Verstappen will use his superior skills and win.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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If there's no race, they will save the engine mileage too.
A lion must kill its prey.

Gillian
Gillian
0
Joined: 27 May 2021, 21:46

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
03 Nov 2024, 00:22
FittingMechanics wrote:
03 Nov 2024, 00:10
AR3-GP wrote:
03 Nov 2024, 00:03


No. There is no such thing as stockpiling.

https://i.postimg.cc/8CTTRQQ7/image.png
So it looks like Max might not need to serve the penalty if the race is cancelled.
I agree. There is no provision in the regulations for carrying forward an engine penalty to the "next competition". That is in contrast to the sporting regulations regarding driving infringements, for which there is a written provision for carrying forward a penalty to the driver's next race if circumstances mean that it is not served in the weekend where the infringement occurred.
This is correct and thank you for finding the rule. I was too lazy to actually look it up but I remembered it from the McLaren Honda days. Imagine carrying forward all those penalties back in 2015 :lol:

Gillian
Gillian
0
Joined: 27 May 2021, 21:46

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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pantherxxx wrote:
03 Nov 2024, 00:27
It's a win-win situation for Red Bull. If there's no race it's good, if there's a race in rainy conditions, Verstappen will use his superior skills and win.
You are forgetting one scenario: We get just a handfull racing laps with Norris on P1 and Verstappen out of the points. That's a 12 (or 13 with fastest lap) points gain for Norris.