2014 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka

[Richard]

I have created a new thread for discussion of Bianchi's recovery, ie events after leaving the circuit. http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =1&t=20315

This thread is for discussion of the race and events on the circuit.

Discussion of safe recovery of cars on track http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... ead#unread

[fets81]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this is from the F1 tracker app, he actually hits a top speed of 213k's coming around dunlop, thats a fair bit of pace coming around dunlop in that weather & under double waved yellows

[samcook]

Ive been looking at my timing app and at approximately the same place that he hits 213kph before impact, on lap 41 the last full green lap at the same very point he is traveling at 222kph so only a reduction of 9kph under double waved yellows.

[fets81]

Add an extra lap on the tires and and extra laps worth of rain, he wasn't exactly erring of the side of caution

[aral]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this is from the F1 tracker app, he actually hits a top speed of 213k's coming around dunlop, thats a fair bit of pace coming around dunlop in that weather & under double waved yellows

http://giant.gfycat.com/TediousConsider ... khound.gif

Now, have a look at chiltons speed. 230kph, and on the next lap 243 kph!

[SectorOne]

Nice gif! My mistake @Strad, you were right on 213km/h, that went by too fast for me and i only caught the 203km/h we see at the end.

[e30ernest]

I thought DRS was meant to be auto-deactivated as soon as you lifted or pushed the brake.

I believe Alex Yoong said that braking into the first corner of Suzuka is done well after corner entry so DRS here had to be closed manually.

[fets81]

I don't know if this has been posted yet but this is from the F1 tracker app, he actually hits a top speed of 213k's coming around dunlop, thats a fair bit of pace coming around dunlop in that weather & under double waved yellows

http://giant.gfycat.com/TediousConsider ... khound.gif

Now, have a look at chiltons speed. 230kph, and on the next lap 243 kph!

at the point of the accident it's actually the same speed he reaches those speeds further down the road

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/ ... vmyx3h.jpg

but what is interesting is that they were also travelling at roughly the same speed when sutil went off

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h245/ ... wrsuh9.jpg

sutil was travelling at roughly 210k's when he left the track, & bianchi was just ahead on 217kph...when there were no double yellows

[Wayne DR]

Firstly, Jules my prayers go out for you. KEEP FIGHTING!!!

Is doing 213 km/h around Dunlop under double yellows, compared to 222 km/h under race conditions (a 9 km/h decrease) sufficient to say he lifted?

If the FIA had better definition around what "lift off" means, and better enforcement of "lifting off" from a safety perspective, we could have avoided this incident totally. Racers will always be racers and push the limits (that is their job), the FIA need to provide the safe limits (that is their job).

"The arguments for sending a Safety Car out were that the conditions were worsening, the light levels fading and some cars (like Sutil and Bianchi) were out on worn intermediate tyres which had done over 20 laps and had little rubber or tread left. F1 engineers have told this website that in those circumstances when rain is falling a worn intermediate tyre loses temperature very quickly, in as little as a lap, and then the grip level drops dramatically."

The FIA could possibly at limiting the number of laps (20 laps or min. tread depth) for full wets and inters, again setting a safe limit to race.


I have also lost respect for Filipe Massa following some of his post race comments. He was out on worn intermediates, the same as everyone else, and in a car that was not setup for the conditions, so he was losing places.

If he truly was "screaming over the radio for the last five laps that the race should be stopped", he had at least two options:

1) Pit and get full wets - the appropriate tyre for the conditions OR
2) (the ballsier option) Pull into the pits, park the car up and get out - Lauda did this in '76 and it cost him the championship, BUT we still all talk about it today.

Don't make comments post race about what others should have done, when you are unprepared to act yourself!

[foxmulder_ms]

I have also lost respect for Filipe Massa following some of his post race comments. He was out on worn intermediates, the same as everyone else, and in a car that was not setup for the conditions, so he was losing places.

If he truly was "screaming over the radio for the last five laps that the race should be stopped", he had at least two options:

1) Pit and get full wets - the appropriate tyre for the conditions OR
2) (the ballsier option) Pull into the pits, park the car up and get out - Lauda did this in '76 and it cost him the championship, BUT we still all talk about it today.

Don't make comments post race about what others should have done, when you are unprepared to act yourself!

Amen...

[Moose]

The problem the FIA had with stopping the race, or putting a safety car out was the risk of looking biased. The race had literally just 2 laps before ticked over into being a full points race. To suddenly go "oh, and... we're done" or "and the safety car will lead them around for the rest", rather than letting them deal with changing tyres, and all the risks involved in that would have looked incredibly biased towards Hamilton.

It seems very petty now after what happened, but the FIA normally do need to think about whether they're advantaging one driver by making calls, and what the political fall out will be of making those decisions.

[emaren]

Wondering about the G-forces that he must have sustained led me to do a little frame counting, it appears that he went from whatever speed he was going on impact to almost stationary in around 11-12 frames. Assuming 29.97 frames/sec that gives a deceleration time between 0.27 seconds and 0.25 seconds, so assuming an average of 0.26seconds...

If he 'only' hit at 60km/hr he saw an average deceleration of 64G for about a 1/4 of a second.

at 100kmh - 106G
at 130kmh - 138G

if it was up around the 200kmh/hr rate- 213G

These are averages, if you look at the slow-mo video, the initial impact lost a really large percentage of the speed in just a couple of frames. So those numbers are averages, I hate to think what the spikes must have been.....

[thedutchguy]

Wondering about the G-forces that he must have sustained led me to do a little frame counting, it appears that he went from whatever speed he was going on impact to almost stationary in around 11-12 frames. Assuming 29.97 frames/sec that gives a deceleration time between 0.27 seconds and 0.25 seconds, so assuming an average of 0.26seconds...

I think your timing is off: it actually takes about 33-36 frames from the moment of impact to the point where the car is completely stationary, so little over a second. Obviously, the blunt part of the deceleration takes place in the first few frames, so accurately calculating g-forces from this video is quite impossible.

Right before the moment of impact, the vehicle appears to cover the length of its wheelbase (estimated at 3965 mm) in five frames. That would come down to 22,17 m/s or about 80 kph.

[djos]

Guys most video is shot at 60 fps in Japan.

[thedutchguy]

Guys most video is shot at 60 fps in Japan.

That doesn't matter. when video is uploaded to Youtube or other video sites, every other frame is discarded, so we end op with 29,97/30 fps. It just make the calculations we can do a bit less accurate.