Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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mbvinnie wrote:So, do the FIA regulations give any way to actually differentiate between the following two scenarios?

1) The race is finishing under safety car conditions (rule 40.13 applies)
2) The safety car coming in during the final lap of a race under rule 40.11 (rule 40.13 does not apply)

To me, this is where the green flags, the notice to teams that SC was 'in this lap' and the lack of SC boards indicate that the race was once again live and NOT finishing under SC (unlike the Aussie GP in '09).

It may be that they meant to finish it under SC, but it is certainly not what they indicated to the drivers/teams/fans, and I think kudos to Mercedes for getting this one right.
+1 exactly as I understand this.

Last year this case did not exist yet and it would not have mattered if they showed whatever flag as the race would have gone green at the same place and time as the checkered flag was waved .Now they introduced the one case that the race got green although the last lap was under SC.

mach11
mach11
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Joined: 21 Aug 2009, 14:28
Location: India

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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This is just stupidity... the safety car pulled in... so the cars were allowed to race again... just for once assume that there were another 3 laps to go... ofcourse everyone would fancy his chances....

This was a poor decision by the stewards... the safety car line was just after the pit lane speedlimit line.... and ofcourse the situation was "green"..... overtaking was allowed... and there were no caution yellow lights or any kind of indication for the driver....

poor very poor....
"Be the change that you wish to see most in your world" -- Mahatma Gandhi

bjpower
bjpower
-1
Joined: 17 May 2009, 14:26

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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To be perfectly honest this is not the only time a screw up has happened due to teams not understanding the finer points of the safety car.

1. the green flags should not have been waved, regardless of what they were intending. you don't show a red flag to a bull.

2. as this event never happened in f1 before you would think the stewards would have got on the radio to inform the teams.

3. the punishment is too harsh. should have placed shui behind alonso and left it at that.

the stewards really have to cop the f&%k on! get rid of the lot and hire rugby refs - far more basic cop-on and fairer at implementing the rules.

I would also point out the bbc commentator also thought they will be racing for the last few yards

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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mach11 wrote:This is just stupidity... the safety car pulled in... so the cars were allowed to race again... just for once assume that there were another 3 laps to go... ofcourse everyone would fancy his chances....

This was a poor decision by the stewards... the safety car line was just after the pit lane speedlimit line.... and ofcourse the situation was "green"..... overtaking was allowed... and there were no caution yellow lights or any kind of indication for the driver....

poor very poor....
I´d think this is completely outrageous
you could only know vaguely if or if not the race was to be ended under Safety car conditions ,and it seems only Brawn had catched up this possibility but of course you would not brag about this to do exactly what Schumacher did in this one occasion that arose.
so for the driver ,I´d think no chance to get this figured out ,as 1)you don´t carry the sporting regs in the car ,2) you don´t have time to read and interpret the rule.
For the drivers the track was green flags ,and that is Racing....
I would think that not all drivers were really aware that the race is to be ended there and then.(could happen to be a intercom malfunction or selective hearing..)

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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something I do not understand is:

Button was out because of the aux fan still in the cooling duct.. but then it was lap 2 when it went baang... so why on earth didn´t they pull him in directly after the formation lap? For sure the mechaanic haad heat waves as soon as he checked his equipment on the way back to the pits... so almost two minutes to inform jenson not to even try....
And its beyond me why they do not have the dayglo colour on parts that are not meant to be raced ...or at least a big red strap on it to alert the driver ,somethings not right here...

some things are quite easy to rectify..

Richard
Richard
Moderator
Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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Segedunum - Yes, you are correct that 40.13 is logically impossible. A race cannot finish with the safety car on the tack if the safety car has pulled off the track before the finish.

However the rules specify that the “duration of the intervention” is specified by clause 40.4 not 40.13.
Clause 40.4 - When the order is given to deploy the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED" will be displayed on the timing monitors and all marshal's posts will display waved yellow flags and "SC" boards for the duration of the intervention.
So to conclude, clause 40.13 is logically impossible, but that’s irrelevant. The SC status of the track is dictated by clause 40.4, not the location of the SC vehicle.

Miguel
Miguel
2
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 11:36
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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You all may be interested to know that Hamilton was clearly told by McLaren not to race Massa, and Fernando was also told not to race Lewis. So it's not our interpretation that differs, but also teams that differ in the interpretation.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

Richard
Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
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Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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marcush. wrote:Button was out because of the aux fan still in the cooling duct.. but then it was lap 2 when it went baang... so why on earth didn´t they pull him in directly after the formation lap?
The commentry was saying that apparently he'd have had enough cooling at race speeds. Apparently Whitmarsh told Button they'd fix it at the next pit stop.

That would have been OK on a normal track, but in this instance he'd have been better to pull into the pits after the formation lap and follow Alonso.

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Paul Oz
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Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 10:50
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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mbvinnie wrote:So, do the FIA regulations give any way to actually differentiate between the following two scenarios?

1) The race is finishing under safety car conditions (rule 40.13 applies)
2) The safety car coming in during the final lap of a race under rule 40.11 (rule 40.13 does not apply)

To me, this is where the green flags, the notice to teams that SC was 'in this lap' and the lack of SC boards indicate that the race was once again live and NOT finishing under SC (unlike the Aussie GP in '09).

It may be that they meant to finish it under SC, but it is certainly not what they indicated to the drivers/teams/fans, and I think kudos to Mercedes for getting this one right.
Agree 100%.......

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Paul Oz
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Joined: 17 Apr 2010, 10:50
Location: Leamington Spa, UK

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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Miguel wrote:You all may be interested to know that Hamilton was clearly told by McLaren not to race Massa, and Fernando was also told not to race Lewis. So it's not our interpretation that differs, but also teams that differ in the interpretation.
Ha ha.... you think Lewis (or Fernando for that matter) would actually heed advice like that :wtf:

PNSD
PNSD
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006, 18:10

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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richard_leeds wrote:
marcush. wrote:Button was out because of the aux fan still in the cooling duct.. but then it was lap 2 when it went baang... so why on earth didn´t they pull him in directly after the formation lap?
The commentry was saying that apparently he'd have had enough cooling at race speeds. Apparently Whitmarsh told Button they'd fix it at the next pit stop.

That would have been OK on a normal track, but in this instance he'd have been better to pull into the pits after the formation lap and follow Alonso.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing isnt it.

I half expected Button to do something like that once he fell behind the Force India's.

Monaco is very much a track where an out of phase strategy can work.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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Button was lucky his car failed, saved him the embarrassment. He was passed by barichello? and 2 force indias, dropping him out of the points and he would surely be passed by Alonso.
Would have been a painful race to watch.
It was a good thing the team put him on softs at the start. If he was on mediums he would probably have to pit early to avoid being overtaken in the pits by rosberg shumi and Alonso and then run the softs for 51 laps. The softs being the tyre he was most uncomfortable with.
For Sure!!

astracrazy
astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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richard_leeds wrote:
marcush. wrote:Button was out because of the aux fan still in the cooling duct.. but then it was lap 2 when it went baang... so why on earth didn´t they pull him in directly after the formation lap?
The commentry was saying that apparently he'd have had enough cooling at race speeds. Apparently Whitmarsh told Button they'd fix it at the next pit stop.

That would have been OK on a normal track, but in this instance he'd have been better to pull into the pits after the formation lap and follow Alonso.
Exactly what i was going to say - they where slow to react. For a team that usually sides with caution they took the gamble not too this time and it bit them in the arse....

Button could have got 6th/7th yesterday if they followed Alonso (in fact if the reacted quick enough they would have been a head of Alonso)

astracrazy
astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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Paul Oz wrote:
mbvinnie wrote:So, do the FIA regulations give any way to actually differentiate between the following two scenarios?

1) The race is finishing under safety car conditions (rule 40.13 applies)
2) The safety car coming in during the final lap of a race under rule 40.11 (rule 40.13 does not apply)

To me, this is where the green flags, the notice to teams that SC was 'in this lap' and the lack of SC boards indicate that the race was once again live and NOT finishing under SC (unlike the Aussie GP in '09).

It may be that they meant to finish it under SC, but it is certainly not what they indicated to the drivers/teams/fans, and I think kudos to Mercedes for getting this one right.
Agree 100%.......
Agree.

the new rule where the safety car line is the new free to race point as apposed to the start/finish is the problem.

Is Aus last year, the safety car went it but they weren't allowed to overtake until the Start/Finish any way (which finished the race)

Yesterday the safety car went it and they crossed the safety car line which meant free to race - safety car period over. Next time the safety car will just have to stay out.

segedunum
segedunum
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007, 13:49

Re: Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

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PNSD wrote:Monaco is very much a track where an out of phase strategy can work.
Well it's certainly the only way you can overtake.