2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[codetower]

Point is that Mclaren wasnt the fastest throughout the race.
At the end? Yes, its not new that with empty tanks their car is the best.
On the 1st and 2nd stint, definitely not, otherwise Oscar would catch up and overtake Charles even before the first pit stop, as he did at the end, and no dirty air did not prevent him.
What this has to do with the date and what the drivers said, I dont understand.

True, McLaren are not clearly better than other cars until the final third of the race. Miami to an extent, Imola, Spain, Austria, Hungary and Spa, very different tracks and the pattern is the same. The final third is them being able to push the limit and without the bouncing as fuel drops and cornering speed increase.

Leclerc started second stint with smaller margin over Piastri than it was at the end. Sainz dropped his times by a bigger margin than Piastri did when he was clear in first stint. If McLaren don't have a good Q, they need to wait and hope for something at the end of the race

I'm not even sure it's simply the final 3rd of the race. McLaren are faster right now, this is pretty obvious. But they aren't "miles" faster as some here are alluding to. And that lap 39 to 42 where Piastri is .95 seconds faster than Leclerc, that happened once he passed him and was over 5 seconds behind Hamilton (clean-ish air). He was also significantly faster during those laps than his "faster" teammate in the same car. He was about .85 seconds/lap faster than Norris during those laps as well.

I'm curious if it IS something with their energy deployment as Leclerc alluded to a few races ago. Not necessarily illegal, but something different. McLaren tend to have these 3 lap bursts where they seem to be verrry quick. More than a single "recharged" lap.

[deadhead]

I still can't believe red bull chose Checo or Daniel over sainz..

They already have enough experience with the Sainz cartel so it actually makes sense that they would stay clear now, no?

[Vanja #66]

And that lap 39 to 42 where Piastri is .95 seconds faster than Leclerc, that happened once he passed him and was over 5 seconds behind Hamilton (clean-ish air). He was also significantly faster during those laps than his "faster" teammate in the same car. He was about .85 seconds/lap faster than Norris during those laps as well.

Gapping Leclerc was extreme since Leclerc had to defend against Max right after Piastri passed him, this costs a lot of time on the long lap of Spa. Norris was stuck behind Max and couldn't take him, which is why Piastri was a lot faster.

[AtOmIc]

And that lap 39 to 42 where Piastri is .95 seconds faster than Leclerc, that happened once he passed him and was over 5 seconds behind Hamilton (clean-ish air). He was also significantly faster during those laps than his "faster" teammate in the same car. He was about .85 seconds/lap faster than Norris during those laps as well.

Gapping Leclerc was extreme since Leclerc had to defend against Max right after Piastri passed him, this costs a lot of time on the long lap of Spa. Norris was stuck behind Max and couldn't take him, which is why Piastri was a lot faster.

Agreed. And realistically, given the nature of this track and the problems Ferrari is facing, I expected much worse from them on this track. It seems like the findings and learnings of the last few races have been applied to some extent. Also, I'm pretty sure they're not that far off. If they manage to solve the bouncing or at least make another step I think they'll be pretty close to being able to win on merit. They're probably lacking bouncing fix + 0.150 to 0.250 secs of upgrades to be the best.

If they can make the same improvement year on year as they did '23 to '24 I's say '25 is looking good. I'm more worried about the high profile guys leaving the team and who will come in their place. I think this team did a decent job and a good step compared to last year.

[Vanja #66]

Summer break points analysis:

- Ferrari cut the gap in WCC to Red Bull by a whopping 80%, from -312 to -63
- Ferrari improved WCC points tally also by 80%, from 191 to 345 (it was 357 in 2022)
- Ferrari scored 2 wins in 2024 vs 0 in 2023
- Ferrari scored 11 race podiums in 2024 vs 3 in 2023 (+266%)
- Leclerc (leading driver in both seasons) cut the gap in WDC by 51%, from -205 to -100 (it was -80 in 2022)
- Leclerc improved WDC points tally by 79%, from 99 to 177 (178 in 2022)

Full chart (WDC points gap delta is inverted, should by 51% and not 49%)



Far more telling of Ferrari's improvement is comparing average gap to the front between finished races in 2nd half of 2022 and 1st halves of 23 and 24 (race win is negative gap to the first non-ferrari car, if counted as 0s the average gap goes up by just 1s)

- H2 2022 17.0s
- H1 2023 35.6s
- H1 2024 13.4s

I did not expect to see them 4s better than 2nd half of 2022, but this is because of Mexico 2022 gap of 58s for Sainz and 2 race wins so far this year. 2023 was absolutely abysmal in every way... It will be difficult to outscore season 2022 in WCC because of such a competitive field right now (even with 2 more races overall), but all other metrics point to Ferrari being a far better team in terms of execution and maximising the results every weekend, while the car will surely be further improved relative to the front.

If they can make the same improvement year on year as they did '23 to '24 I's say '25 is looking good. I'm more worried about the high profile guys leaving the team and who will come in their place. I think this team did a decent job and a good step compared to last year.

It will be very hard to have that same improvement since a good part of 23->24 improvement came from a revised chassis configuration and sidepod geometry. They will have a small aero improvement with pull rod geometry, but the biggest improvement will have to come from better suspension design with respect to tyre window operation and aero platform integration. The only high-profile vacancy this year is from Cardille and these 14 races have shown he managed to turn things around, but definitely put too many limits on suspension design and thus limited the number of aero development paths.

[AtOmIc]

Summer break points analysis:

- Ferrari cut the gap in WCC to Red Bull by a whopping 80%, from -312 to -63
- Ferrari improved WCC points tally also by 80%, from 191 to 345 (it was 357 in 2022)
- Ferrari scored 2 wins in 2024 vs 0 in 2023
- Ferrari scored 11 race podiums in 2024 vs 3 in 2023 (+266%)
- Leclerc (leading driver in both seasons) cut the gap in WDC by 51%, from -205 to -100 (it was -80 in 2022)
- Leclerc improved WDC points tally by 79%, from 99 to 177 (178 in 2022)

Full chart (WDC points gap delta is inverted, should by 51% and not 49%)

https://i.ibb.co/yQJGr9d/summer-break.jpg

Far more telling of Ferrari's improvement is comparing average gap to the front between finished races in 2nd half of 2022 and 1st halves of 23 and 24 (race win is negative gap to the first non-ferrari car, if counted as 0s the average gap goes up by just 1s)

- H2 2022 17.0s
- H1 2023 35.6s
- H1 2024 13.4s

I did not expect to see them 4s better than 2nd half of 2022, but this is because of Mexico 2022 gap of 58s for Sainz and 2 race wins so far this year. 2023 was absolutely abysmal in every way... It will be difficult to outscore season 2022 in WCC because of such a competitive field right now (even with 2 more races overall), but all other metrics point to Ferrari being a far better team in terms of execution and maximising the results every weekend, while the car will surely be further improved relative to the front.

If they can make the same improvement year on year as they did '23 to '24 I's say '25 is looking good. I'm more worried about the high profile guys leaving the team and who will come in their place. I think this team did a decent job and a good step compared to last year.

It will be very hard to have that same improvement since a good part of 23->24 improvement came from a revised chassis configuration and sidepod geometry. They will have a small aero improvement with pull rod geometry, but the biggest improvement will have to come from better suspension design with respect to tyre window operation and aero platform integration. The only high-profile vacancy this year is from Cardille and these 14 races have shown he managed to turn things around, but definitely put too many limits on suspension design and thus limited the number of aero development paths.

Good summary, regarding Cardille I think this year the team also lost head of simulations or something like that to Merc. and if I remember reading up on it he was pretty important for good correlation between the simulations and windtunnel and on track.

In regards to the jump in performance next year, I'm banking my hopes on better suspension design and overall better setup window so the drives can have a predictable car and extract more from the parts already on the car. I really think that if they get on top of suspension and viechle dynamics we should see nice benefits. Aero team seems competent, also I think suspension guys are pretty competent as well since they really did a very nice unique suspension that worked well. I think the key for next year would probably be better cooperation and alignment between those 2 teams so one knows what the other one is doing and needing so a right compromise can be achieved. I think initial suspension and aero worked awesome but as aero developed suspension couldn't follow and they had to know that in terms of aero what numbers they're targeting in advance. In general I think the team is not lost and is competent. I even have faith for the second part of the season that they can turn things around. Maybe not challenge for constructors but be in the mix and win some more races.

EDIT: Aslo, I think that the team is getting too much --- for every little imperfection while others don't get nearly enough. It's not only the forums it's the media as well. It puts unnecessary pressure to the team. We can see other teams this year also had their fair number of major screwups. Imagine Ferrari being DNQ after winning the race. I can Imagine angry mob wanting Freds head on a stick haha. Or if while fighting for the lead Lec or Sainz made a mistake and crashed into another driver. There would be gazillion posts how they're unfit and that type of comments. People need to chill down and stop being so toxic and negative. If mclaren and merc didn't made those huge jumps everyone would be talking how Ferrari is much improved and awesome but still not competent to compete for wcc and how that's somehow end of the world while they would enjoy probably points wise their best season in ages. What's really important is that the team is improving in all areas and is cathing up to the front. It's much better team then they were this time last year and I would say even 2022.

[Vanja #66]

EDIT: Aslo, I think that the team is getting too much --- for every little imperfection while others don't get nearly enough. It's not only the forums it's the media as well. It puts unnecessary pressure to the team. We can see other teams this year also had their fair number of major screwups. Imagine Ferrari being DNQ after winning the race. I can Imagine angry mob wanting Freds head on a stick haha. Or if while fighting for the lead Lec or Sainz made a mistake and crashed into another driver. There would be gazillion posts how they're unfit and that type of comments. People need to chill down and stop being so toxic and negative. If mclaren and merc didn't made those huge jumps everyone would be talking how Ferrari is much improved and awesome but still not competent to compete for wcc and how that's somehow end of the world while they would enjoy probably points wise their best season in ages. What's really important is that the team is improving in all areas and is cathing up to the front. It's much better team then they were this time last year and I would say even 2022.

Yes, there's absolutely way too much negativity and jumping to conclusions - and most of it comes from Italian journalists unfortunately. I hope Elkann starts doing something about this and have the negative publicity cut to a minimum.

Between Canada and Silverstone the team dropped arguably 30-40 points regardless of upgrades and bouncing issues. More points were lost on Leclerc's side obviously due to PU issue in Canada, Piastri damaging his wing in Austria and really bad communication error from Bozzi in Silverstone. This would have resulted in a very different perspective of the previous 5-6 races and some changes in WDC and WCC standings. However, these things will happen because this is how things go in this sport. McLaren are yet to face their bad luck moments (Austria crash is all on Norris) and we will see how they react to them - the pressure there is already piled up failing to deliver 4-5 more wins in these last few races

[Vanja #66]

Mercedes topics belong in Mercedes team thread, please keep posts on topic, thank you

[Sevach]

It looks like Ferrari needs another "soul searching" like they had at Zandvoort last year.

For all the talk of "new concept", the floor design was an evolution of what the team had last year, maybe they should look at other floors, floor sideblades... to get out of this hole.

[KimiRai]

Diego Tondi promoted to Head of Aerodynamics.

[K1Plus]

Diego Tondi promoted to Head of Aerodynamics.

So that's higher than Head of aerodynamic development.
I know Loic Bigois was the head of aerodynamic operations, could this mean he's leaving and Diego staying in his role...
I mean head of aerodynamics should be the same as head of aerodynamic operations so, essentially yeah promotion...

[Z-one]

Diego Tondi promoted to Head of Aerodynamics.

So that's higher than Head of aerodynamic development.
I know Loic Bigois was the head of aerodynamic operations, could this mean he's leaving and Diego staying in his role...
I mean head of aerodynamics should be the same as head of aerodynamic operations so, essentially yeah promotion...

Bigois is responsible for correlation and wind tunnel model manufacturing, test arrangements and other operational aspects

[Vanja #66]

It looks like Ferrari needs another "soul searching" like they had at Zandvoort last year.

For all the talk of "new concept", the floor design was an evolution of what the team had last year, maybe they should look at other floors, floor sideblades... to get out of this hole.

They had their testing session in Austria and Silverstone already. There is no better proof of their complete understanding of the situation than a huge improvement in high-speed corners in Spa compared to Silverstone. They have a lot of room to add some rear downforce, but will have to increase the front wing load at some point to keep the balance right.

McLaren has arguably the biggest frontal area of it and planform surface too and this is a very important factor in their overall performance. To maximise the floor potential, front wings will now have to be maximised as well as it will be a better trade off on most of the tracks very soon. Right now its still a tie on most tracks between slightly better efficiency and slightly more downforce

[Fakepivot]

so they will announce new technical structure at Monza, i wonder why. unless it's someone BIG name

[Lasssept]

Nugnes/Motorsport It reports that Mike Elliott's name is a strong candidate to become the team's new technical director

Elliott is currently gardening and could be free in early 2025. Is this the man Vasseur will focus on? We'll have to wait a few weeks to find out, but there aren't many profiles of this caliber available.

Lewis Hamilton and Loïc Serra would have rehabilitated the figure of Mike Elliott

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10641752/