Thats not true. Williams had a similar tire degradation :Shal_Leg16 wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 06:46Unless they go for complete overhaul of say suspention system or floor stuff I don't think they can catch RB. If it's only Ferrari & hass with major tyre issues then it's has to be some fundamental issue with the concept. Small tweeks won't work instead such approach is affecting the balance of the car and making it worse.Venturiation wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 20:32exactly and i don't think it's about copying redbullShal_Leg16 wrote: ↑06 Mar 2023, 19:54
Car is not shyt. Obviously fans are venting because they are angry , if we do good job in next few races things will come down to normal...
But I do feel .. this aero/concept has its limitations/serious flaws. look at how swiftly AM changed its fortunes. all they did is steal few Adrien Newey disciples and copy RB concept. Even with the coping everything looks fine. And look at Mercs and Ferrari, both seem like stuck with same persistent issues ... Trying multiple things not knowing what to do.
fallows ( who built the RB18) used what he learned from newey and applied to aston martin but by having original sideopods not a copy
there is something else going on in the floor and front suspension when you think that aston martin is doing that performance with mercedes component
and just look at alfa romeo they have no problem with tyre deg because they have same concept as redbull
haas copied ferrari and they have the same high tyres degradation
i think the concept is just at it's limit or they are stuck and haven't used some trick with the floor or suspension that newey and fallows know
I'm afraid Max is on his way to his 3rd ....
As much as I like the quality in your posts, I’m afraid you’re wasting your time with those guys trying to explain them why they’re plain wrong. They insist on repeating their extremely flawed arguments. I mean, their argumentation is that RedBull, Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo use the same concept and thus have less tyre deg. On the other hand, Ferrari and Haas use the same concept and have high tyre deg they say.Andi76 wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 09:34Thats not true. Williams had a similar tire degradation :
https://postimages.org/
So it's not correct to put it down to the concept, because Williams has chosen the "Red Bull concept", which, according to this theory, should not be. The concept does not play a role here. A lot of things have an influence on the tires, but the concept has little to do with it. Here it's about things like balance, weight distribution and weight transfer, suspension stiffness, torsional stiffness of the chassis, energy you put in the tire, thermal management, springs, dampers and geometry, contact frequencies, individual wheel loads during cornering, induced tyre drag, self aligning torque, rolling resistance, caster and kingpin inclination- its so many things, but the aerodynamic concept plays a very subordinate to hardly any role here.
Bahrain certainly exaggerated the weaknesses. Most tracks will be better for the car than Bahrain even if it wasn't updated
on the first stint with softs, leclerc had NEW softs, and max and sainz had USED softs.Vanja #66 wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 10:13Regarding degradation on Ferrari, it's very interesting to compare Max and Leclerc in the first stint. Max was going 38.0 for 6 laps before tyres started to go, typical driving to delta while pushing. Leclerc was 5-6 tenths per lap slower for 8 laps before tyres started to go. Degradation on Ferrari was only slightly worse than RB.
https://i.ibb.co/xCmNw4m/2023-BAH.jpg
In his next stint on Softs, Max extended the tyre left with gradually faster laps. Following laps were 37.4-37.7 which is also amazing for driving to delta, but clearly slower laps than possible on those tyres to extend the stint. At the same time, Leclerc was also gradually going faster on Hards, but these laps seem to be have been too fast for Hards. He then got caught up by Perez, the fight to keep the P2 wore his tyres down a lot and his laps after the fight were more than 0.5s slower. If he wasn't fighting, he wouldn't have lost so much time and could have done a better job to keep the tyres alive and have better laps for much longer.
On the other hand, Sainz was painfully slow on Softs, his degradation was clear and instant and I have no idea what was going on with him. Same as last year, maybe even worse. His stints on Hards were also slower than Leclerc's on average, but since he was alone on track his 2nd stint was more uniform than Leclerc's, while his 3rd stint was a rollercoaster due to fight with Alonso and defending against Hamilton. Yet, from lap 48-55 he had consistent laps around 37.6, which doesn't really suggest degradation, but rather slower laps with worn tyres after fighting on track.
So all in all, my feeling is that Ferrari overestimated Hards quite a bit, or they knowingly went "what the hell, lets race and see what happens" with Leclerc. Degradation on Softs for Leclerc was almost the same as Max' but the car was simply half a second slower and we know they were both pushing hard on those first laps. Sainz's race suggest we shouldn't take his laps and degradation of his tyres into account, he wasn't the reference driver in this race, at all...
RB was comfortably the fastest car in the race, giving them a chance to nurse their tyres and look much better than the rest. Not that they weren't, but it wasn't about degradation but rather about the pure pace of the car, at least 0.5s faster than the 2nd fastest car, Ferrari.
I see everyone took inspiration from my comparisonFDD wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 15:50There is a table in the text with lap times Max vs Lec for the first stint for 2022 and 2023
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10440880/
Not so bad, considering the F1-75 was a very well balanced car already at Bahrain last season whereas the SF-23 isn't yet.FDD wrote: ↑07 Mar 2023, 15:50There is a table in the text with lap times Max vs Lec for the first stint for 2022 and 2023
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10440880/