2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Andi76]

they need to change concept , the SF23 is a failure like the W14 they had similar pace and both were almost 1,5 second slower than redbull on race pace

I don't think you can call a concept that was on par with Red Bull in 2022 (up to TD39) and partly the fastest (qualifying) and obviously still has a high qualifying pace a failure after only one race with high tire degradation. Even more so when parts of this concept are among the most copied at all. Sorry, but that's a bit far-fetched now.

It's not like Mercedes has been lagging behind for over a year and has obvious aerodynamic problems. And again - this concept was the fastest in 2022 in terms of pure speed (qualifying). And so far we've had one race on an exceptional course. To call a concept a failure after something like that - you can't really say anything about it. Sorry.

it's the 3rd fastest in race pace,
it is a failure when you stopped upgrading since july 2022 to focus on 2023
the car is the same qualifying looking closer and in the race destroying tyres, they had almost a year to fix that
and drivers still complain about bouncing when all teams have fixed it

None of the drivers really complained about bouncing. If you mean Sainz's short question in the race - then pretty much every car should be a failure, because at some point during the weekend several drivers asked why the car was bouncing. Red Bull had even exceeded the readings....and the tires - that has rather little to do with the concept.

ferrari concept has no more potential it was close in 2022 only because redbull didn't push and knew they had both titles in the bag and mercedes was at same race pace as ferrari

in 2023 it's not enough the ferrari is too far back

Yes, of course. Red Bull deliberately lost races and poles. Verstappen above all. Sorry, but I can't say anything about it now and just let what you say speak for itself. And Mercedes would not have found the connection partially, where they nevertheless developed and developed around to understand what they must do, where others had already stopped for a long time, then they would be directly incapable.

I agree that Ferrari is far behind Red Bull in the race. But that has nothing to do with the concept, because the pace itself is there, as you can see in qualifying. And as I said, it's the first race. If you make such final judgments - then you haven't seen much of F1, sorry.

[Venturiation]

I don't think you can call a concept that was on par with Red Bull in 2022 (up to TD39) and partly the fastest (qualifying) and obviously still has a high qualifying pace a failure after only one race with high tire degradation. Even more so when parts of this concept are among the most copied at all. Sorry, but that's a bit far-fetched now.

It's not like Mercedes has been lagging behind for over a year and has obvious aerodynamic problems. And again - this concept was the fastest in 2022 in terms of pure speed (qualifying). And so far we've had one race on an exceptional course. To call a concept a failure after something like that - you can't really say anything about it. Sorry.



None of the drivers really complained about bouncing. If you mean Sainz's short question in the race - then pretty much every car should be a failure, because at some point during the weekend several drivers asked why the car was bouncing. Red Bull had even exceeded the readings....and the tires - that has rather little to do with the concept.

ferrari concept has no more potential it was close in 2022 only because redbull didn't push and knew they had both titles in the bag and mercedes was at same race pace as ferrari

in 2023 it's not enough the ferrari is too far back

Yes, of course. Red Bull deliberately lost races and poles. Verstappen above all. Sorry, but I can't say anything about it now and just let what you say speak for itself. And Mercedes would not have found the connection partially, where they nevertheless developed and developed around to understand what they must do, where others had already stopped for a long time, then they would be directly incapable.

I agree that Ferrari is far behind Red Bull in the race. But that has nothing to do with the concept, because the pace itself is there, as you can see in qualifying. And as I said, it's the first race. If you make such final judgments - then you haven't seen much of F1, sorry.

the ferrari that was getting poles last year barely won any races and you want this ferrari that can't get poles win against a faster car in race?
just wait until aston martin gets the setup right it's over for ferrari

2023 is dominated by newey and followed by fallows

[LostInTranslation]

I'm sorry, but I have to intervene.

The sentiment of the Italian fans is very far from the narrative that someone has made here about the dynamics and the power of intervention of the top management in Ferrari (in terms of a company) on the GES (sports management).

The racing team is a separate segment from the production car business.

Elkann and Vigna have never understood anything about formula one, let alone that they could intervene in terms of technical matters.

After Enzo Ferrari, the only really fan president was Luca Cordero di Montezemolo. Who was always in his office and went to all the races.

Binotto, having worked for 28 years in GES, then rose to the top. He surrounded himself with many friends and promoted them to top positions. They called him the Pharaoh. An intelligent man, but without balls when it came to talking about political weight in F1, with all the top management of Ferrari (Elkann, Vigna etc. in the same time perfectly fugitives).

This is the truth. And let's leave aside the story of Rory Byrne, 80 yo, who rightly enjoys his retirement among the palm trees and Thai beaches.

[Shal_Leg16]

ferrari concept has no more potential it was close in 2022 only because redbull didn't push and knew they had both titles in the bag and mercedes was at same race pace as ferrari

in 2023 it's not enough the ferrari is too far back

Yes, of course. Red Bull deliberately lost races and poles. Verstappen above all. Sorry, but I can't say anything about it now and just let what you say speak for itself. And Mercedes would not have found the connection partially, where they nevertheless developed and developed around to understand what they must do, where others had already stopped for a long time, then they would be directly incapable.

I agree that Ferrari is far behind Red Bull in the race. But that has nothing to do with the concept, because the pace itself is there, as you can see in qualifying. And as I said, it's the first race. If you make such final judgments - then you haven't seen much of F1, sorry.

the ferrari that was getting poles last year barely won any races and you want this ferrari that can't get poles win against a faster car in race?
just wait until aston martin gets the setup right it's over for ferrari

2023 is dominated by newey and followed by fallows

Car is not shyt. Obviously fans are venting because they are angry , if we do good job in next few races things will come down to normal...

But I do feel .. this aero/concept has its limitations/serious flaws. look at how swiftly AM changed its fortunes. all they did is steal few Adrien Newey disciples and copy RB concept. Even with the coping everything looks fine. And look at Mercs and Ferrari, both seem like stuck with same persistent issues ... Trying multiple things not knowing what to do.

[Andi76]

I'm sorry, but I have to intervene.

The sentiment of the Italian fans is very far from the narrative that someone has made here about the dynamics and the power of intervention of the top management in Ferrari (in terms of a company) on the GES (sports management).

The racing team is a separate segment from the production car business.

Elkann and Vigna have never understood anything about formula one, let alone that they could intervene in terms of technical matters.

After Enzo Ferrari, the only really fan president was Luca Cordero di Montezemolo. Who was always in his office and went to all the races.

Binotto, having worked for 28 years in GES, then rose to the top. He surrounded himself with many friends and promoted them to top positions. They called him the Pharaoh. An intelligent man, but without balls when it came to talking about political weight in F1, with all the top management of Ferrari (Elkann, Vigna etc. in the same time perfectly fugitives).

This is the truth. And let's leave aside the story of Rory Byrne, 80 yo, who rightly enjoys his retirement among the palm trees and Thai beaches.

You are joking, aren't you? No? Sorry, but then I have to intervene now. What you say is NOT the truth. Whether Montezemolo or now Elkann or Vigna, Ferrari bosses do interfere in technical matters. Of course they don't interfere in deeper technical matters, but they do interfere and overturn development directions, as well as things like how resources are allocated. This went and goes so far that today they demand that the car must be faster on the straights, and a week later they want the opposite. This isn't even a secret - several former Ferrari engineers like Willem Toet have talked about this in interviews. I'm in contact with several Ferrari engineers, former and those who still work for Ferrari now. And every former Ferrari engineer who worked there before or after the Schumacher time confirms this 100%. And as I said - it is not a secret and publicly known. And regarding Binotto - he has said several times in the last two years to someone who used to be his boss at Ferrari and with whom I talk on the phone or have a webchat once a week "I can't do what I want"! Which referred to the interference of Vigna and Elkann.

Regarding Rory - Rory is a consultant at Ferrari. He doesn't come to Maranello anymore. But he still advises Ferrari and does no small amount of work for Ferrari. Besides Ferrari he has 4 other jobs. So there is no question of retirement and certainly not that Rory has nothing to do with Ferrari anymore.

Sorry, but everything you say is completely wrong.

[Andi76]

ferrari concept has no more potential it was close in 2022 only because redbull didn't push and knew they had both titles in the bag and mercedes was at same race pace as ferrari

in 2023 it's not enough the ferrari is too far back

Yes, of course. Red Bull deliberately lost races and poles. Verstappen above all. Sorry, but I can't say anything about it now and just let what you say speak for itself. And Mercedes would not have found the connection partially, where they nevertheless developed and developed around to understand what they must do, where others had already stopped for a long time, then they would be directly incapable.

I agree that Ferrari is far behind Red Bull in the race. But that has nothing to do with the concept, because the pace itself is there, as you can see in qualifying. And as I said, it's the first race. If you make such final judgments - then you haven't seen much of F1, sorry.

the ferrari that was getting poles last year barely won any races and you want this ferrari that can't get poles win against a faster car in race?
just wait until aston martin gets the setup right it's over for ferrari

2023 is dominated by newey and followed by fallows

Possible. Maybe this year will be dominated by Newey followed by Follows. Which brings us to the next mistake - reducing the Red Bull and Aston Martin to one person is neither fair, nor is it accurate. Newey's first Red Bulls trailed for years. An F1 car doesn't succeed because of one man. Of course a Newey or a Fallows can make the difference. But to attribute success to one person alone shows little knowledge of how F1 works. Waiting until Aston Martin gets the set-up right? How do you know that Ferrari doesn't have to get it right first (which is much more likely)? Sorry, but to call a car that was without a doubt the fastest last year in qualifying, in terms of pure speed, and that this year is closest to Red Bull in terms of speed, a failure, to reduce the success of a team to one man - that's a bit too banal for me, contentless fan gossip, with the same value. Whereas it is still possible that you are right and AM will soon be ahead of Ferrari. But maybe not.

[Venturiation]

Yes, of course. Red Bull deliberately lost races and poles. Verstappen above all. Sorry, but I can't say anything about it now and just let what you say speak for itself. And Mercedes would not have found the connection partially, where they nevertheless developed and developed around to understand what they must do, where others had already stopped for a long time, then they would be directly incapable.

I agree that Ferrari is far behind Red Bull in the race. But that has nothing to do with the concept, because the pace itself is there, as you can see in qualifying. And as I said, it's the first race. If you make such final judgments - then you haven't seen much of F1, sorry.

the ferrari that was getting poles last year barely won any races and you want this ferrari that can't get poles win against a faster car in race?
just wait until aston martin gets the setup right it's over for ferrari

2023 is dominated by newey and followed by fallows

Car is not shyt. Obviously fans are venting because they are angry , if we do good job in next few races things will come down to normal...

But I do feel .. this aero/concept has its limitations/serious flaws. look at how swiftly AM changed its fortunes. all they did is steal few Adrien Newey disciples and copy RB concept. Even with the coping everything looks fine. And look at Mercs and Ferrari, both seem like stuck with same persistent issues ... Trying multiple things not knowing what to do.

exactly and i don't think it's about copying redbull

fallows ( who built the RB18) used what he learned from newey and applied to aston martin but by having original sideopods not a copy

there is something else going on in the floor and front suspension when you think that aston martin is doing that performance with mercedes component

and just look at alfa romeo they have no problem with tyre deg because they have same concept as redbull

haas copied ferrari and they have the same high tyres degradation

i think the concept is just at it's limit or they are stuck and haven't used some trick with the floor or suspension that newey and fallows know

[Venturiation]

Yes, of course. Red Bull deliberately lost races and poles. Verstappen above all. Sorry, but I can't say anything about it now and just let what you say speak for itself. And Mercedes would not have found the connection partially, where they nevertheless developed and developed around to understand what they must do, where others had already stopped for a long time, then they would be directly incapable.

I agree that Ferrari is far behind Red Bull in the race. But that has nothing to do with the concept, because the pace itself is there, as you can see in qualifying. And as I said, it's the first race. If you make such final judgments - then you haven't seen much of F1, sorry.

the ferrari that was getting poles last year barely won any races and you want this ferrari that can't get poles win against a faster car in race?
just wait until aston martin gets the setup right it's over for ferrari

2023 is dominated by newey and followed by fallows

Possible. Maybe this year will be dominated by Newey followed by Follows. Which brings us to the next mistake - reducing the Red Bull and Aston Martin to one person is neither fair, nor is it accurate. Newey's first Red Bulls trailed for years. An F1 car doesn't succeed because of one man. Of course a Newey or a Fallows can make the difference. But to attribute success to one person alone shows little knowledge of how F1 works. Waiting until Aston Martin gets the set-up right? How do you know that Ferrari doesn't have to get it right first (which is much more likely)? Sorry, but to call a car that was without a doubt the fastest last year in qualifying, in terms of pure speed, and that this year is closest to Red Bull in terms of speed, a failure, to reduce the success of a team to one man - that's a bit too banal for me, contentless fan gossip, with the same value. Whereas it is still possible that you are right and AM will soon be ahead of Ferrari. But maybe not.

i know it doesn't come to one man

Fallows worked with newey and fallows made the RB18 and worked on RB19 upgrades pipeline
wich is what you do when you make a car you also think about possible upgrades path

if the redbull team of engineers found a trick that gave that advantage dan fallows brought it with him

aston martin was way back last year and the moment he left gardenning leave the car changed completly and we are seeing that even with mercedes components they are able to go much lower just like redbull

this car is pretty new for aston martin and they will learn alot how to use it and i expect big gains by them already in the first few races

alonso battled with sainz on pure pace no safety car and no other help

[LM10]

The concept of Ferrari is not the issue and there neither is nor has ever been a doubt about that. The suggestion of a few armchair experts on here, having no clue whatsoever in terms of aero engineering, that Ferrari should copy RedBull’s concept is just absolutely ridiculous. By the looks of it you are not even able to differentiate between real problems and temporary issues due to compromised setups - yet you have the audacity to confidently tell that Ferrari’s concept (which already proved itself to be working perfectly) is wrong.

It was the first race and Ferrari was nowhere near having a sorted out car. They still need time to understand the car. You fuming around here won’t change that.

#AMuS Vasseur believes Ferrari can fix the tyre deg with setup changes & better understanding.

Vasseur: "A fast car in qualifying has to be able to be a fast car in the race. It's not a question of concept. We are convinced of our path & the developments in the pipeline."

[Peter Ian Staker]

The had 3 days of testing plus the FPs to find a good setup for the track
Not buying it, sorry.

[LM10]

The had 3 days of testing plus the FPs to find a good setup for the track
Not buying it, sorry.

You can not buy it as much as you wish. It’s absolutely normal to need much more time than 3 days of testing and 3 FP sessions to understand a completely new car. Most teams need several races to get on top of things. Mercedes didn’t even understand their car for half a year last season.

If you’re not new to F1 (which I guess you are like many others here) you should also remember the diva of a car Mercedes had in 2017 when for a very long time they didn’t understand why their car was working/not working under certain circumstances.

It’s not easy to make a car work in it‘s window, not on this high level. The tyres alone are a rocket science to understand just for a start.

[tpe]

For the guy that downvoted this as out of topic: What exactly is out of topic? Or should we discuss the handle of tires in the teams thread? Get a life.

To mods: I DO know that is THIS is out of topic. So, just delete it.

Why are you asking what's off topic if you know it's off topic? Why are you posting in the car thread stuff unrelated to the car itself? Someone who's been here for 17 years should have learned by now.

Do not continue spamming the car thread, please.

The "Box for refill" warning on Lec's steering wheel maybe indicates a pneumatic system's leak? Also Norris stopped a few times for that

It wasn't ICE itself by the looks of it, it was either an electrical issues, one of the pumps or something with pneumatics/hydraulics...

Well, apparently when one talks about the tyres is off topic, or about the performance but when every one else start talking about other things is on topic.

Anyway, I am a spammer, so I will leave alone.

[Peter Ian Staker]

The had 3 days of testing plus the FPs to find a good setup for the track
Not buying it, sorry.

You can not buy it as much as you can. It’s absolutely normal to need much more time than 3 days of testing and 3 FP sessions to understand a completely new car. Most teams need several races to get on top of things. Mercedes didn’t even understand their car for half a year last season.

If you’re not new to F1 (which I guess you are like many others here) you should also remember the diva of a car Mercedes had in 2017 when for a very long time they didn’t understand why their car was working/not working under certain circumstances.

It’s not easy to make a car work in it‘s window, not on this high level. The tyres alone are a rocket science to understand just for a start.

I've been watching F1 for over 2 decades. I've seen every stage of post-2008 Ferrari failure multiple times over.
Mercedes' 2017 "diva" was still very competitive and winning often even before they fully got on top of it.
I don't see that level of competitiveness out of this car.

[LM10]

The had 3 days of testing plus the FPs to find a good setup for the track
Not buying it, sorry.

You can not buy it as much as you can. It’s absolutely normal to need much more time than 3 days of testing and 3 FP sessions to understand a completely new car. Most teams need several races to get on top of things. Mercedes didn’t even understand their car for half a year last season.

If you’re not new to F1 (which I guess you are like many others here) you should also remember the diva of a car Mercedes had in 2017 when for a very long time they didn’t understand why their car was working/not working under certain circumstances.

It’s not easy to make a car work in it‘s window, not on this high level. The tyres alone are a rocket science to understand just for a start.

I've been watching F1 for over 2 decades. I've seen every stage of post-2008 Ferrari failure multiple times over.
Mercedes' 2017 "diva" was still very competitive and winning often even before they fully got on top of it.
I don't see that level of competitiveness out of this car.

If you can see the level of competitiveness out of a not-yet-ready car already after the first race with a compromised setup (contrary to the Ferrari team itself) you either are a genius who needs to apply for a job at Ferrari immediately or you’ve been watching F1 not carefully enough.

[dialtone]

The had 3 days of testing plus the FPs to find a good setup for the track
Not buying it, sorry.

You can not buy it as much as you can. It’s absolutely normal to need much more time than 3 days of testing and 3 FP sessions to understand a completely new car. Most teams need several races to get on top of things. Mercedes didn’t even understand their car for half a year last season.

If you’re not new to F1 (which I guess you are like many others here) you should also remember the diva of a car Mercedes had in 2017 when for a very long time they didn’t understand why their car was working/not working under certain circumstances.

It’s not easy to make a car work in it‘s window, not on this high level. The tyres alone are a rocket science to understand just for a start.

I've been watching F1 for over 2 decades. I've seen every stage of post-2008 Ferrari failure multiple times over.
Mercedes' 2017 "diva" was still very competitive and winning often even before they fully got on top of it.
I don't see that level of competitiveness out of this car.

I don't know what Ferrari will end up doing this year, may fail again... But 2014-2018 Mercedes had such a massive engine advantage that they could have had a tractor and it was going to start and finish in front.


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