Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

[marcush.]

Back to the last corner neverending story.

actually it is the regs that Safety car in during the race is :
40.11 :
announcement of safetycar in this lap ,and green flags and green lights shown as we have whitnessed in the race.

40.13 says IF the race ends under SC the car goes into the pitlane and does not cross the line....

So how could anyone know IF the race ended under SC ??? In fact the rules do not
cater for this at all .There is no word telling that a safety car cannot be retracted on the last lap .Before it was of no consequence now the distance between
SC line 1 and finish line is unpoliced ground...haha what a mess...

[alberto222mx]

So how could anyone know IF the race ended under SC ???

The rule 40.4 is very specific, "When the order is given to deploy the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED" will be displayed on the timing monitors and all marshal's posts will display waved yellow flags and "SC" boards for the duration of the intervention."

Last year Australia's race ended under SC and that rule was applied, leaving clear that there wasn´t chance for overtaking.

[Miguel]

You all may be interested to know that Hamilton was clearly told by McLaren not to race Massa, and Fernando was also told not to race Lewis. So it's not our interpretation that differs, but also teams that differ in the interpretation.

Ha ha.... you think Lewis (or Fernando for that matter) would actually heed advice like that

Yes, I do. And it wasn't an advice, but orders. Furthermore, both of them complied. Check the distance between Massa and Hamilton. Now tell me, Paul. Do you really think Hamilton would give Massa 1.7 seconds in a restart? Really? And the same between Alonso and Hamilton?

[marcush.]

So how could anyone know IF the race ended under SC ???

The rule 40.4 is very specific, "When the order is given to deploy the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED" will be displayed on the timing monitors and all marshal's posts will display waved yellow flags and "SC" boards for the duration of the intervention."

Last year Australia's race ended under SC and that rule was applied, leaving clear that there wasn´t chance for overtaking.

Yes and new rule says :

40.11 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP" will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car's orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten car lengths behind it.
In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the RESTART.
As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be displayed until the last car crosses the Line.

this new ruling is meant for a restart not the race ending under SC !!! so the fact is clear ,the officials have if on porpose or accidently decided to have a restart at SC line 1. there was the option to not give green light and flags and end the race under SC conditions.Very simple.

[ESPImperium]

Does anyone have a link to the Technichal Report???

Has the FIA did what they did last year in Singapore and got caught up in the gosip of what party they are away to at the end of their shift???

[mep]

What do you think about the fact that Damon Hill was race Stuart at that race?
For me Hill plays the major role on this punishment. He wants to pay back on Schumacher because of his lost world champion title. We all know that Hill is one of Schumacher’s biggest enemies.

Check out this video, it clearly shows that Schumacher was still behind Alonso when the crossed the withe line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ch-Nj_L ... re=related

This maneuver is just sooo brilliant it's reason enough to let it be legal.
FIA always does the same mistake, people complain about a lack of overtaking but whenever a driver overtakes it leads to a long series of discussion about legal or not. In earlier times there wasn't such a big hype about legal or not. When you managed to overtake you was the hero, the other was just a looser. Today a driver who overtakes gets treated like a criminal and must defend himself on court.
Where should that lead to….?

[segedunum]

What do you think about the fact that Damon Hill was race Stuart at that race? For me Hill plays the major role on this punishment.

Too much has been made of Damon Hill at Monaco. Frankly, he won't know the rules and regulations as well as the other stewards (or should I say, as well as they should know them) and it is not the first muddled and frankly baffling decision we've had from them to cover up for the fact that there's been a ballsup or they simply don't know what to do.

Formula One is simply governed in a haphazard and amateurish way.

[Just_a_fan]

What do you think about the fact that Damon Hill was race Stuart at that race?
For me Hill plays the major role on this punishment. He wants to pay back on Schumacher because of his lost world champion title. We all know that Hill is one of Schumacher’s biggest enemies.

Hill was one of the stewards and was there to advise the panel on things from a driver perspective. Hill could not impose a punishment on anyone.

Hill is much too laid back and, dare I say it, adult to want to try to "pay back" someone for something that happened, what, 14 years ago.

[Holm86]

i havent read this intire thread so sorry if the subject has been up before.

but will barichello resive a penalty for throwing hes steering wheel onto the track?? it looked like a hispania racer drowe over it.
but it could seriously damage the floor of a car.

[andartop]

Too many people keep arguing based on what would have (might have) happened if there were another x number of laps to go, but this is pointless: there weren't any more laps to go. As the last lap of the race started under the SC, the race would by default finish with the SC deployed, which would only leave the track for the cars to cross the finish line. Please read the previous posts, WB has made this quite clear for anyone.

In any case, there is nothing more to argue about this, Mercedes has appealed the decision and there's no point arguing about it any more until the outcome of the appeal is known; both sides have been heard (to death), and there is simply nothing more to say!

Then there are the conspiracy theorists who keep arguing DH had something to do with the severity of the punishment. Again, please read the previous posts: there was no other option according to the rules, and that's that.

Now we read that MW has been fined for speeding in the pit lane. Agreed, it is illegal. How about Rubens throwing the steering wheel in the freaking racing line then? That incident was much more serious than anything else that happened in this race, and we still haven't even heard a word about it from the stewards! This is a scandal!

[andrew]

The issue is not (or should not) be the position of the white line in relation to Schumacher and Alonso. It is black and white on that one with no debate to be had.

However as of this year, if the safety car pulls of on the final lap, no one can pass anyone. The race ended as soon as the safety car came out, not when Webber passed the line.

So far I think we can all agree that Schumacher should not have passed Alonso as it was on the final lap.

The problem is that green flags/lights were clearly shown giving the go ahead to race. In normal race conditions, once greens are shown the race is on. Schumacher is unfortunately on the wrong side of the regs however, the person that controls the signals appears to have messed up.

At worst, he should have had to give Alonso the place back but 20 seconds which is effectivly a disqualification is just obscene and an insult to correct governance of the sproting regs. Clearly Jean Todt's scheme of former F1 drivers acting as race stewards is causing more confusion than normal and is not working. After yet another stewarding controversy, I can see what should be a good season being overshadowed by dodgy stewarding decisions.

[andrew]

Formula One is simply governed in a haphazard and amateurish way.

Completely agree.

It is too easy to blame Damon Hill for extracting revenge (which is an opinion that I subscribe to) but on the flip side it maybe is just a coincidence that Hill was the steward and Schumacher got a penalty (okay, it is a massive coincidence ).

[ESPImperium]

The last Renault concecutive finishes:

1-2-3 =
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_French_Grand_Prix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Portuguese_Grand_Prix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Pacific_Grand_Prix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_German_Grand_Prix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Hungarian_Grand_Prix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Canadian_Grand_Prix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_British_Grand_Prix

1-2-4-4 =
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_French_Grand_Prix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Luxembourg_Grand_Prix

May do Ferarri, Mercedes and Cosworth next!!!

[chapmanlung]

really annoyed that rubens didnt get penalised for that wheel throwing incident....
he has had a previous history with chuking the toys out the pram, anyone remember hungary 2003?
rear suspension failure, heavy crash into first corner,,,,comes to a stop and out of anger and frustration, throws out the sterring wheel, this is obviously his knee cherk reaaction, what lame excuses he is coming up with...... not impressed

[Just_a_fan]

It is too easy to blame Damon Hill for extracting revenge (which is an opinion that I subscribe to) but on the flip side it maybe is just a coincidence that Hill was the steward and Schumacher got a penalty (okay, it is a massive coincidence ).

Hill was one of four stewards at the race. If I remember correctly, there are three permanent FIA stewards assisted by an ex-driver steward whose role is to give the stewards an idea of how the drivers' minds might have been working during the incident. Unless one has driven one of these cars in anger (and I'm confident no one here has) then it is impossible to grasp what can and can't be seen, felt, appreciated etc. in the car.

Anyone who seriously believes that the ex-driver holds sway in that group and will decide guilt and punishment is, quite frankly, deluded.

As someone who spends his days administering legislation (lots of it seemingly about as well written as the F1 regs) I can tell you that all they have done is look at the wording of the rules and applied them to the situation. As has been ably demonstrated herein, hours of debate can be had over the wording of a rule; indeed, merely the punctuation of a rule can have a massive effect on the outcome. It can be interesting but often is trying.

Mercedes have appealed, as is their right, and the WMSC will decide if the stewards' reading of the rules was correct. If it is so decided then the decision will also inform how that situation will be dealt with in future.

The media blew on the embers of the Hill / Schumacher history in the hope of reigniting a fire that long ago went cold. They rang the bell and some people came running. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad...