German Gp 2009 - Nürburgring

[djos]

I thought I read somewhere that Webbo was getting a new chassis this weekend? (He's looked after his only chassis) Seb Is already on his 3rd iirc.

[SoliRossi]

If the wet and relatively cold weather continues it will favour Red Bull.

Wet definately not, then you can scrape all known things, then it is just who can drive the best in the rain, then the brawn will win as it simly seems to have great traction out of slow corners, monaco have proven it and also on bahrain it was proven.

Iv heard so many people say this, its completley incorrect.

RBR has wet weather pace over brawn due to aero. The profile of the wet tyre 'clicks' with the RB5 aero (davidson discussed this on BBC). WHen it is wet your mechanical traction is pointless, the road surface is going to let go at the same level for all cars, and all cars traction will far exceed what the wet surface will allow.

However your aero efficiency is still as effective as when its dry. Sure you are not going as quick (so less downforce) but the air still hits the wings in the same fashion, and in turn pushes your tyres onto the road.

So when its wet if you avhe good aero you can generate more pressure on your tyre/road (downforce) and then you grip/speed will be greater.

And the only reason why Button won in Malaysia was because he was miles in front before it rained, Webber was hauling him in and would have cleared him if the race went the distance (and remaind wet). Button also commented after china that the RBR is untouchable i the wet, he said every corner he was behind Mark he could not even hold the same line.

[SoliRossi]

If the wet and relatively cold weather continues it will favour Red Bull.

Wet definately not, then you can scrape all known things, then it is just who can drive the best in the rain, then the brawn will win as it simly seems to have great traction out of slow corners, monaco have proven it and also on bahrain it was proven.

Iv heard so many people say this, its completley incorrect.

RBR has wet weather pace over brawn due to aero. The profile of the wet tyre 'clicks' with the RB5 aero (davidson discussed this on BBC). WHen it is wet your mechanical traction is pointless, the road surface is going to let go at the same level for all cars, and all cars traction will far exceed what the wet surface will allow.

However your aero efficiency is still as effective as when its dry. Sure you are not going as quick (so less downforce) but the air still hits the wings in the same fashion, and in turn pushes your tyres onto the road.

So when its wet if you avhe good aero you can generate more pressure on your tyre/road (downforce) and then you grip/speed will be greater.

And the only reason why Button won in Malaysia was because he was miles in front before it rained, Webber was hauling him in and would have cleared him if the race went the distance (and remaind wet). Button also commented after china that the RBR is untouchable i the wet, he said every corner he was behind Mark he could not even hold the same line.

[WhiteBlue]

A pretty good explanation. So we can expect RBR to be strong and there might be a surprise as well when Brawn get to test their new components.

I thought that tyre heat generation was one of the more important aspects as well. The following link gives a bit of an insight and explains why the new RBR has a longer wheel base.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/08072009/ ... anced.html

BMW will also have a big aero upgrade package to test. I hope they can make some progress.

[SoliRossi]

A pretty good explanation. So we can expect RBR to be strong and there might be a surprise as well when Brawn get to test their new components.

I thought that tyre heat generation was one of the more important aspects as well. The following link gives a bit of an insight and explains why the new RBR has a longer wheel base.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/08072009/ ... anced.html

BMW will also have a big aero upgrade package to test. I hope they can make some progress.

Good article mate, and a very good point re tyre use and heat.

[wesley123]

If the wet and relatively cold weather continues it will favour Red Bull.

Wet definately not, then you can scrape all known things, then it is just who can drive the best in the rain, then the brawn will win as it simly seems to have great traction out of slow corners, monaco have proven it and also on bahrain it was proven.

Iv heard so many people say this, its completley incorrect.

RBR has wet weather pace over brawn due to aero. The profile of the wet tyre 'clicks' with the RB5 aero (davidson discussed this on BBC). WHen it is wet your mechanical traction is pointless, the road surface is going to let go at the same level for all cars, and all cars traction will far exceed what the wet surface will allow.

However your aero efficiency is still as effective as when its dry. Sure you are not going as quick (so less downforce) but the air still hits the wings in the same fashion, and in turn pushes your tyres onto the road.

So when its wet if you avhe good aero you can generate more pressure on your tyre/road (downforce) and then you grip/speed will be greater.

And the only reason why Button won in Malaysia was because he was miles in front before it rained, Webber was hauling him in and would have cleared him if the race went the distance (and remaind wet). Button also commented after china that the RBR is untouchable i the wet, he said every corner he was behind Mark he could not even hold the same line.

That is plain bullshit, why they run springs then? because it helps better traction in the wet, the suspension plays a bigger role then the earodynamics.
Like you mentioned, the grip is for everyone the same, suspension doesn change that, so why should aerodynamics would? Suspension helps you balance the car correctly, wich aerodynamics cant in the wet, alot of downforce from the floor is gone too due to little aquaplaning and water heaping up, so downforce generated from that is trown in the water.
Also a controlled right foot is important, wich button seems to have more, vettel is stil making mistakes when it isnt needed. If it is dry or wet, we gonna see a good fight here. The brawn has alot of traction out of slow corners and the red bull has lot of dowforce for the fast and fowing orners, so their performance will be pretty similair.

[WhiteBlue]

I can't remember Button coming under serious pressure this season. I mean Alonso/Schumacher Monza type of pressure.

Newey interview on German GP

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76782

[wesley123]

I havent seen vettel either have you?

But it will come, i am pretty sure they will fight it out on the track this race.

[tk421]

I also checked a qualifying lap of 2006 and they are taking the softer kink now. So that is the current lay out as indicated by the map on page 1 of the thread.

2006 was Hockenheim.

In 2007, our last race here, they were using the sharper of the two left-rights...

[ESPImperium]

Just looked at the wether forcast for the weekend, and looks like a little bit of China, so wet race is likley. Vettel for the win, and the battle to keep the car on the island. I suspect the Toro Rosso will go well here as well, i feel that Red Bull have given them a little hand in how to set the car up, as they need more cars up there to add to Brawns race plan.

[ISLAMATRON]

http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hi ... po_026.jpg

http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hi ... apo_07.jpg

[Scotracer]

Nicely cambered constant-radius corners with plenty of run-off and only a bit of elevation change. How the mighty have fallen.

[WhiteBlue]

I also checked a qualifying lap of 2006 and they are taking the softer kink now. So that is the current lay out as indicated by the map on page 1 of the thread.

2006 was Hockenheim.

In 2007, our last race here, they were using the sharper of the two left-rights...

You can rely on me to know Hockenheim from Nürburgring. Didn't they do both Rings back in 2006?

http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/rr755.html

You are right about the hard kink though. Check this video at 1:27s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0OPQt01YtU&hl=de

[sunny1304]

Geoff Willis has left red bull.

what do you think, where should be his next stop ?? should FERRARI/MCLAREN be interested on him ??

[mx_tifoso]

Manufacturer ring taxi's out in full force...