Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

[komninosm]

That's why they're 'looking into the rules' - which means they will be quietly changed to mention safety car conditions on the final lap.

Wait, didn't most of us agree the rules needed some clarification? So now that FIA is going to do that, after openly agreeing to it in their publicized talks with Merc/Brawn you equate that with "quietly changed"? I would think that "quietly" would be something like saying to Brawn "no you're wrong, frack off" and then doing it secretely at the next meeting (or year) with no publicity. Cause let's face it, it's unlikely this situation will arise again for many many races and now there is precedent so there would be no confusion in team orders anyway (no passing allowed) if it did happen, so a clarification is not desperately needed ASAP. Conspiracy theory much? [-X

[komninosm]

You're forgetting that 40.13 is absurd and obviously never applies in any situation
/sarcasm

You are forgetting that since SC pulled before SF line - race never ends under SC. Absurd here is that SC and SF lines are separated. If they remained same - SC could pull into pits - lights can go green - cars would have to pass in processing order over SF line without overtaking.

40.13 If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

Hmm, maybe "if the race ends" is not perfect grammar and should be "if the race would end". Any English major students here?

[West]

Here's a link to pictures I took from the harbor. There is no room to move around once the GP starts. If I go again I'll need a better zoom lens (and more experience w/ the camera...). I hope you enjoy:

http://s283.photobucket.com/albums/kk31 ... naco%20GP/

There's an album to the Galleria Ferrari as well.

[Richard]

You are forgetting that since SC pulled before SF line - race never ends under SC.

I'm not. You're forgetting that the track status is "safety car deployed" under rule 40.4. regardles of wheteh er actual car is on teh track or not.

So yes "safety car deployed" staus can apply to the finsh even after the safety car has pulled into the pit lane.

[wesley123]

You are forgetting that since SC pulled before SF line - race never ends under SC.

I'm not. You're forgetting that the track status is "safety car deployed" under rule 40.4. regardles of wheteh er actual car is on teh track or not.

So yes "safety car deployed" staus can apply to the finsh even after the safety car has pulled into the pit lane.

Yes, but guess what, the lights where green, green flags were waved, thus the track was given clear, so the drivers are allowed to race again.

[aral]

You are forgetting that since SC pulled before SF line - race never ends under SC.

I'm not. You're forgetting that the track status is "safety car deployed" under rule 40.4. regardles of wheteh er actual car is on teh track or not.

So yes "safety car deployed" staus can apply to the finsh even after the safety car has pulled into the pit lane.

Yes, but guess what, the lights where green, green flags were waved, thus the track was given clear, so the drivers are allowed to race again.

The flags denoted that the track was clear. Nothing else! Green flags themselves do not mean "GO RACING". The rules clearly stated "no overtaking before the finish line". This is what the stewards found, and that Mercedes have now accepted.

[ggajic]

40.13 If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

Hmm, maybe "if the race ends" is not perfect grammar and should be "if the race would end". Any English major students here?

Now go back to 40.11 and you will (under current implementation of rules) end in endless loop why 40.13 is not applicable. SC deployed != SC in this lap...

[segedunum]

The flags denoted that the track was clear. Nothing else! Green flags themselves do not mean "GO RACING".

It's about more than just the green flags. It's about whether the safety car was deployed or not since that's what the rule in question depends on. Given race control said the safety car was in and the safety car lights were off then you're racing after the safety car line.

WB's clarification of the green flags, while interesting, does nothing other than tell us that yellow flag and safety car conditions have ended. The only occasion when green flags mean no racing is when another rule transcends them - and none does in this case. Beyond that, you pay attention to waved yellows or safety car signs which denote that you're under those conditions. There were no waved yellows or safety car signs once Mark Webber passed the safety car line.

The rules clearly stated "no overtaking before the finish line". This is what the stewards found, and that Mercedes have now accepted.

No they dont. If you can come up with a rule that specifically says 'no overtaking before the start/finish line' anywhere then I'm all ears. Once again, that's an assumption. The overtaking before the start/finish line was dispensed with this year, 40.13 doesn't say anything about it and it is a rule that even excludes itself if the safety car is not deployed.

Mercedes have accepted that it isn't worth the effort and rules will probably be reworded quietly later as they often are.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

"Therefore in the best interests of the sport, Mercedes GP will not be submitting an appeal" Mercedes press release.

Apparently they still feel the penalty given to Schumacher is disproportionate(as do most sane folk). I think Mercedes want the FIA to see sense and put Schumacher back to 6th(the position he was before the move).

I think most people would be satisifed with this, as Schumacher drove a really good race under the circumstances. Somehow, I think the FIA want to flex a bit of muscle on this.....

[alberto222mx]

WTF!!
Thirty pages of discussion for this!
I guess MGP expect that the FIA after understanding their reasons would reconsider his decision without the appeal.... or not

[WhiteBlue]

There are two issues for the Sporting working group arising from the Rascasse II situation in my view:

1. SC Regulation

$40.13 should be re worded to avoid the misinterpretation that Brawn and Schumacher fell victim of.

The green flag definition in the ISC appendix H should be looked at. It currently means track clear of dangers but it is also used in some cases to start or re start a practise session. It should be stated what it really means in a race. Are drivers allowed to go full speed or are they allowed to go full speed and pass as most people feel it would be right?


2. Penalties

The drive through penalties and after race penalties should be reviewed to apply positions or allow for some discretion. The safety car in the last lap produces such short gaps between finishers that a 20 s penalty can mean seven or eight positions. If there is no safety car you are likely to drop just one to three positions. Even Hill mentioned in his interviews that he was uncomfortable to impose the 20 s penalty as it stood. An in race penalty can be a drive through but for penalties after the race position drops would be fairer unless the stewards have massive discretion.


Conclusion:

This was a bad day for Michael. He received bad advise from Brawn and lost 6 points he had earned through a beautifully executed pass. I really enjoyed that pass, how clever it was set up and executed. Michael's reputation with the general public has suffered but his fans will be relieved that he still got it. After the good defense in Spain he showed nice attack in Monaco where practically no one else would pull such a stunt.

[barricadas]

Definitely, La Rascasse is not Michael's favorite turn. BTW does anyone know why Loewe's turn lost its name, and why it is unnamed now?

[Mr Alcatraz]

This sort of reminds me of The Case of the incredible growing contact patch 2003 me-thinks.
Ferrari had gotten info from their man at "Stoneville" that it was his opinion as the Michelins wore down
Their contact patch actually increased.
Well Jean and Ross keep it under their hat add whatever reason someone might do that here
Then when Ferrari decided that it may actually cost them the WDC and WCC they lodged a protest.
Many trolls wondered if they knew this all along why they didn’t mention it sooner.
The protest was upheld No one had points taken away for gaining them by cheating!
(This is exactly what Mike deserves) I don't think he meant to contravene the rule. :-"
Just like Fred had no idea that the sleazebags on the Renault team had hatched a plot to improve their lot
I guess between recreation and his job Max proved to be a Tifosi . I mean reasonable.

[Richard]

My comments are purely hypothetical comments to show the rules can work if correctly applied. Although better wording of the rules would help!

The flags denoted that the track was clear. Nothing else! Green flags themselves do not mean "GO RACING". The rules clearly stated "no overtaking before the finish line". This is what the stewards found, and that Mercedes have now accepted.

I disgaree. Rule 40.4 says that showing yellow flags, SC boards and message on timing screen means safety car deployment. Absence of those sign means no safety car deployment.

Now go back to 40.11 and you will (under current implementation of rules) end in endless loop why 40.13 is not applicable. SC deployed != SC in this lap...

No. "Safety car deployed" is a track status, it does not relate to the physical location of the safety car. This is defined in rule 40.4. As long as the messgae is on the timing screen and yellow flags + SC boards are shown on the track, the track status is "safety car deployed". The actual car could be in the pits, or in the swimming pool. What counts are the flags and timing screen messages.

[Ray]

Marshals waving green flags and green flashing lights don't restart the race in any racing series anywhere in the world, the flagman does. He alone holds the power to restart a race, no waved green flag, no race restart. The marshals and the lights are to indicate safe racing conditions, not dictating the state of the race. The race was never restarted by the flagman and the Safety Car was called into the pit lane in accordance with regulation 40.13. There is no counter-argument, marshals/waving flags/trackside lights do not restart a race or practice session. The flagman indicates that. End of discussion for me, it's clear that everyone here makes up their own interpretation of how actual motor racing is run, discounting every single type of racing on a track everywhere in the world since the internal combustion engine was fitted into more than one car.