2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Seanspeed]

The current F2 field must be outrageously good given how well Bearman and Colapinto have performed after being hastily thrown into a seat and told to race. Their necks aren't ready. They have very little real F1 experience and little to no time to prepare, yet were immediately on the pace.

The crazy thing is that Bearman and Colapinto aren't even the best drivers in F2 this season. Colapinto isn't even the best F2 rookie, arguably not even top 3. I think he has already made it clear he deserves an F1 seat. If an F2 rookie that isn’t even top 3 is this good, just imagine how good someone like Bortoleto must be.

Surely this is the strongest F2 field ever? Maybe you could argue for 2018, but I don't think so.

Assuming you're not joking, no, F2 is just whacky this year, with heavy inconsistency and mixups in terms of what drivers or teams are able to gel with the new car at a given weekend.

It's frustrating in that it's nearly impossible to really read anything into this F2 field as a result.

[Sevach]

I think as f1uno pointed, our new fw doesnt flex as much as mclaren’s. Its first iteration, they probably went more conservative due to rules and having less experience with that stuff

With Ferrari's base setup being developed around a FW that "stays the same" around the entire lap, it makes sense not to go super aggressive with this at first, or you might end up with a different set of problems.

Typically the team would be somewhat front limited in slow corners, and well balanced in medium-high (provided the floor wasn't acting up) what they need is a wing that has a bit more on slower speeds and around the same pressure in medium-high.

[CouncilorIrissa]

All in all the outcome of the last two races is triggering me to no end. So annoying.

It was clear since Japan SF24 is too gentle with tyres in Q and they over-corrected this feature of SF23, but it wasn't a frustrating issue as it didn't cost them any wins realistically. Right now an easy win and a good shot at the win were lost because of tyre warm up and it would completely change the outlook of this season and obviously the WCC fight.

And people were angry that Cardille was let go so easily and Serra was recruited in his place last year

They tend to overcorrect the failures of the predecessor, yeah. They went from SF70H (max downforce at all costs), to SF71H (a pretty balanced car), to SF90 (dragster). Then from F1-75 (on the draggier side) to SF23 (another dragster).

I was one of the people angry for letting him go mostly because Ferrari's track record after letting people go is suspect. And Cardile had a decent track record of cleaning up the mess he inherited from Sanchez. But it looks like it's working out for the team.

[scuderiabrandon]

All in all the outcome of the last two races is triggering me to no end. So annoying.

It was clear since Japan SF24 is too gentle with tyres in Q and they over-corrected this feature of SF23, but it wasn't a frustrating issue as it didn't cost them any wins realistically. Right now an easy win and a good shot at the win were lost because of tyre warm up and it would completely change the outlook of this season and obviously the WCC fight.

And people were angry that Cardille was let go so easily and Serra was recruited in his place last year

They tend to overcorrect the failures of the predecessor, yeah. They went from SF70H (max downforce at all costs), to SF71H (a pretty balanced car), to SF90 (dragster). Then from F1-75 (on the draggier side) to SF23 (another dragster).

I was one of the people angry for letting him go mostly because Ferrari's track record after letting people go is suspect. And Cardile had a decent track record of cleaning up the mess he inherited from Sanchez. But it looks like it's working out for the team.

A 'decent track record' is extremely generous. Had one good update when he took over from Sanchez. Several rather disappointing once.

[CouncilorIrissa]

It was clear since Japan SF24 is too gentle with tyres in Q and they over-corrected this feature of SF23, but it wasn't a frustrating issue as it didn't cost them any wins realistically. Right now an easy win and a good shot at the win were lost because of tyre warm up and it would completely change the outlook of this season and obviously the WCC fight.

And people were angry that Cardille was let go so easily and Serra was recruited in his place last year

They tend to overcorrect the failures of the predecessor, yeah. They went from SF70H (max downforce at all costs), to SF71H (a pretty balanced car), to SF90 (dragster). Then from F1-75 (on the draggier side) to SF23 (another dragster).

I was one of the people angry for letting him go mostly because Ferrari's track record after letting people go is suspect. And Cardile had a decent track record of cleaning up the mess he inherited from Sanchez. But it looks like it's working out for the team.

A 'decent track record' is extremely generous. Had one good update when he took over from Sanchez. Several rather disappointing once.

Which ones?

Japan spec floor for the SF23 and launch-spec SF24 were pretty decent imo. The Imola update was 50/50, they got closer to RB (although it remains to be seen whether it was self-imposed by RB or not), but got leapfrogged by McLaren (but updates of their magnitude are definitely not the norm).

The only definitively disappointing update that comes to mind was the silly Barcelona spec floor.

[Sevach]

I was one of the people angry for letting him go mostly because Ferrari's track record after letting people go is suspect. And Cardile had a decent track record of cleaning up the mess he inherited from Sanchez. But it looks like it's working out for the team.

I think it's one thing to hastly boot the chief designer after one car/season hasn't gone to plan(we had a lot of that in that time inbetween the Todt dream team and the Binotto era) and the current "we don't think he's worth that much" that happened with both Sanchez and Cardile.
Plus the current cost cap era, it kinda encourages movement vs going over the top to hold on to guys like that.

[scuderiabrandon]

They tend to overcorrect the failures of the predecessor, yeah. They went from SF70H (max downforce at all costs), to SF71H (a pretty balanced car), to SF90 (dragster). Then from F1-75 (on the draggier side) to SF23 (another dragster).

I was one of the people angry for letting him go mostly because Ferrari's track record after letting people go is suspect. And Cardile had a decent track record of cleaning up the mess he inherited from Sanchez. But it looks like it's working out for the team.

A 'decent track record' is extremely generous. Had one good update when he took over from Sanchez. Several rather disappointing once.

Which ones?

Japan spec floor for the SF23 and launch-spec SF24 were pretty decent imo. The Imola update was 50/50, they got closer to RB (although it remains to be seen whether it was self-imposed by RB or not), but got leapfrogged by McLaren (but updates of their magnitude are definitely not the norm).

The only definitively disappointing update that comes to mind was the silly Barcelona spec floor.

The launch spec SF-24 had many flaws, hidden by the fact that McLaren were slow at the start for some odd reason. Starting to think they were holding back to secure more ATR. Inherit flaws, those that only get fixed during the winter. It seemed like a good base to build from, but here we are almost in October and none of those problems have been solver. Still a big question mark over the bouncing concern.


Funny enough, around the same time his departure was announced, confirmation that there'd be a switch to pull front suspension and relocation of the cockpit. Seems like he might have vetoed against things some member wanted to implement much earlier. Could be coincidence, I don't think so though.

Truth is, it was too hit or miss with him anyway.

[Vanja #66]

The launch spec SF-24 had many flaws, hidden by the fact that McLaren were slow at the start for some odd reason. Starting to think they were holding back to secure more ATR. Inherit flaws, those that only get fixed during the winter. It seemed like a good base to build from, but here we are almost in October and none of those problems have been solver. Still a big question mark over the bouncing concern.

Funny enough, around the same time his departure was announced, confirmation that there'd be a switch to pull front suspension and relocation of the cockpit. Seems like he might have vetoed against things some member wanted to implement much earlier. Could be coincidence, I don't think so though.

Truth is, it was too hit or miss with him anyway.

It's hard to gauge what was a too conservative choice and what was a choice made to prevent introducing new challenges and problems. Other than tyre warm up, which was clearly too conservative even if understandable to an extent, I don't think any other choice was too conservative. Gearbox case and pull rod rear were redesigned and it's working fine, chassis and lower SIS tube were redesigned and it seems ok. Front was redesigned, but kept as push rod and I don't think this was a bad choice seeing how many core issues SF23 turned out to have. Pull rod front and cockpit repositioning for next season are not minor details and if they think it will be an improvement it's gonna yield some non-downforce lap time gains which others don't have available.

After Canada fiasco, it was clear they were too conservative with tyre warm up and this is something Cardille was responsible for. If they planned to overcome this limit by improving downforce, and judging by their statements at the time - they did, but were blind sighted by downforce limits and return of bouncing, this is also something Cardille was responsible for. I knew we can't expect an epic car for history books from Cardille and I think they did an ok job with SF24, but now that they have a stable base they need to go all in for next season and they can't afford to be too conservative. Calculated risks with experienced anticipation of development and lap time limits is needed and Serra's experience should fit like a glove with that.

It's a very important detail that they've opened up a new development path with Monza floor and it's reassuring to see Red Bull copying it instantly for Baku floor experiments. Together with more front wing flexing and gains with pull rod front, cockpit position and better tyre warm up, the 25 car seems to have all the right ingredients for a strong and competitive start.

We shouldn't forget McLaren copied RB's floor concept approach and they seem to have hit a limit, using basically the same floor with minimal tweaks for 13 races straight, while their plan was to introduce a whole new floor in Silverstone, 7 races ago. There is no rumour, let alone official confirmation, that they will have a new floor in Austin. RB gave up on too many vertical kicks (like Ferrari) with Baku floor and we can be sure they will follow down this path as well with Austin upgrades.

[.Bole]

I am wondering how much would changing suspension concept set us back for next year

[deadhead]

I am wondering how much would changing suspension concept set us back for next year

I’m really surprised that they are doing such a big change in the last year of the regulations, it seems like they think they got it wrong 4 years in a row now?

[Xyz22]

I am wondering how much would changing suspension concept set us back for next year

I’m really surprised that they are doing such a big change in the last year of the regulations, it seems like they think they got it wrong 4 years in a row now?

The current layout is not "wrong". Pull rod front suspension is just better from an aero point of view.

[.Bole]

I am wondering how much would changing suspension concept set us back for next year

I’m really surprised that they are doing such a big change in the last year of the regulations, it seems like they think they got it wrong 4 years in a row now?

Exactly what i am saying why do it now, its not like this car is far off the top that we need this kind of big change.

[Vanja #66]

The current layout is not "wrong". Pull rod front suspension is just better from an aero point of view.

Yes, it will remain to be so for 2026 cars as well, one od the very few pieces of the car that will be allowed to generate outwash because it naturally does (when it generates downwash with incidence angle). If they didn't plan to keep it in 26, no reason to change it for one single season, hopefully

[Venturiation]

I am wondering how much would changing suspension concept set us back for next year

I’m really surprised that they are doing such a big change in the last year of the regulations, it seems like they think they got it wrong 4 years in a row now?

To get data for 2026

[bananapeel23]

I am wondering how much would changing suspension concept set us back for next year

I’m really surprised that they are doing such a big change in the last year of the regulations, it seems like they think they got it wrong 4 years in a row now?

Exactly what i am saying why do it now, its not like this car is far off the top that we need this kind of big change.

Clearly they see the inability of the suspension to cope with too much load as a hinderance in terms of brining further upgrades without inducing bouncing. They went with a suspension setup that didn't put too much energy into the tyres and expected that any tyre warming issues would resolve themselves by putting more downforce onto the car. Once they did start bringing upgrades that gave them more downforce, the car started suffering from bouncing.

My speculation:

They have clearly partially resolved the bouncing issues and brought the car into a more workable window, but we don't know how large the compromises in peak downforce they had to make in order to get the car to work again. They are clearly suffering from warmup issues again, which they seemingly didn't post-Canada, pre-Monza. That would indicate that they were forced to give up a not insignificant of load in order to get the car to behave.

Taken as a whole, there seems to be a fundamental limitation with just how much downforce the car and suspension can cope with. They obviously have more than in Bahrain, but given the fact that the latest floor iterations have given up many local load generating elements like kicks, the suspension only seems to work with a very particular load distribution. Disturb that distribution by adding "easy" downforce through local load generating elements and the suspension simply seems to give up. There is probably more downforce they can gain within the narrow window where the suspension still works, but even more if they can bring a suspension setup that works in a wider load distribution window.

They probably want to change the suspension in order to make the car work in a wider load distribution window without inducing bouncing so that they can more easily extract performance from the floor. They seem to think the current suspension setup is fundamentally limiting the development potential of the car. Is it worth the risk? I have no clue, but Ferrari clearly seems to think so.

Vanja feel free to correct me if I'm just talking nonsense.