2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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hollus
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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Regarding those visually awesome ghost car laps... half faked, as usual.

I don't know if the position of the ghost car is based on minisectors with some "default lap" behaviour or on real time GPS data. Other years, the gaps were minisector based, so one single real timing datapoint every 3-5 seconds.

In any case, the position of Hamilton's car, laterally, does not correspond to Hamilton's pole lap. At the beginning of the lap, Hamilton appears to first go all the way left, and then start slowly drifting right in the straight, slowly and well before turn-in. In the real lap, his left tire is on the white line, as it should be, until he fully trhows the car to the right.
This can most clearly be seen as he crosses the final while line before turn 1. In reality, he crosses it with wheels on the track´s edge. In the ghost car, at the 7 second mark, it is Verstappen who has wheels on the white line at the track´s edge, perhaps even touching the kerb, while the Ferrari´s nose is to the right of the Red Bull's right wheels.

Too gimmicky. Ugh!

Image

Also exiting the final corner, the ghost car goes way more to the right than the real Ferrari does.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

Hoffman900
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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ToffeeTyres wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 18:37
It is absolutely shocking how high tyre pressures are with Pirelli. It just shows they don’t have any confidence in them. We really need a new tyre supplier. Michelin used to have pressures of about 14-18 psi if I remember correctly and no overheating either something Pirelli have never got their heads around. The prescriptive tyres need to be better too so the drivers can actually push more than half a lap
What makes you think Michelin would be better? The cars are so much heavier, loads are so much different, and then rules makers require them to wear / perform a certain way, which Michelin has actually been vocal about. Pirelli could design much better tires if left to their own devices.

Let’s not forget, Michelin is responsible for probably the biggest tire farce in F1 history.

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TNTHead
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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hollus wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 19:04
Regarding those visually awesome ghost car laps... half faked, as usual.

I don't know if the position of the ghost car is based on minisectors with some "default lap" behaviour or on real time GPS data. Other years, the gaps were minisector based, so one single real timing datapoint every 3-5 seconds.

In any case, the position of Hamilton's car, laterally, does not correspond to Hamilton's pole lap. At the beginning of the lap, Hamilton appears to first go all the way left, and then start slowly drifting right in the straight, slowly and well before turn-in. In the real lap, his left tire is on the white line, as it should be, until he fully trhows the car to the right.
This can most clearly be seen as he crosses the final while line before turn 1. In reality, he crosses it with wheels on the track´s edge. In the ghost car, at the 7 second mark, it is Verstappen who has wheels on the white line at the track´s edge, perhaps even touching the kerb, while the Ferrari´s nose is to the right of the Red Bull's right wheels.

Too gimmicky. Ugh!

https://i.imgur.com/BGwM76l.jpeg

Also exiting the final corner, the ghost car goes way more to the right than the real Ferrari does.
May be they made a digital twin of the mini sector / gps data and run a model fitting the most of the data, but with obvious deviation. Probably will be more accurate when they have run the model more.

ToffeeTyres
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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Hoffman900 wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 19:20
ToffeeTyres wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 18:37
It is absolutely shocking how high tyre pressures are with Pirelli. It just shows they don’t have any confidence in them. We really need a new tyre supplier. Michelin used to have pressures of about 14-18 psi if I remember correctly and no overheating either something Pirelli have never got their heads around. The prescriptive tyres need to be better too so the drivers can actually push more than half a lap
What makes you think Michelin would be better? The cars are so much heavier, loads are so much different, and then rules makers require them to wear / perform a certain way, which Michelin has actually been vocal about. Pirelli could design much better tires if left to their own devices.

Let’s not forget, Michelin is responsible for probably the biggest tire farce in F1 history.
I did mention the prescriptive tyre rules need to change so they don’t melt after half a lap and overheat so much. That is the first thing that needs changing and should have for next years new regs but they didn’t which is a shame. Yes Pirelli could make better tyres but they have never since coming into the sport got their heads around the over heating. Cars are ridiculously heavy and big but would be nice to have new tyre rules for the makers and also a new supplier that’s just what I would like and I’m sure many others would too. The drivers would also like to be able to push fully on the tyres racing will be better maybe just need more pit stops perhaps but soft tyres should at least last more than 2 laps at full pace.

Obviously smaller lighter cars would be best and is my main wish for the future as that will make a huge difference.

venkyhere
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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hollus wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 19:04
In any case, the position of Hamilton's car, laterally, does not correspond to Hamilton's pole lap. At the beginning of the lap, Hamilton appears to first go all the way left, and then start slowly drifting right in the straight, slowly and well before turn-in. In the real lap, his left tire is on the white line, as it should be, until he fully trhows the car to the right.
This can most clearly be seen as he crosses the final while line before turn 1. In reality, he crosses it with wheels on the track´s edge. In the ghost car, at the 7 second mark, it is Verstappen who has wheels on the white line at the track´s edge, perhaps even touching the kerb, while the Ferrari´s nose is to the right of the Red Bull's right wheels.
I think they showed this 'error' on purpose, to not have 'concident cars' and instead give the viewer a reference for the two cars starting their laps at the same time. I did check the accuracy of the ghost video in the corners, referring against the pole video, and it was fairly accurate with entry/exit angles that HAM's car made w.r.t the apex of the corners. The two camera angles are slightly different (very slightly) because they are two different cars and their mounting points' height and angle of tilt looking forward a slightly different.

Rikhart
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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Why would they place the sprint race first, before qualy? I mean, isn't a race supposed to have precedence? Or just abandon this sprint travesti all together...

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chrisc90
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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Just overlay the video with a 50-60% transparency
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

dialtone
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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The ghost car is a cool idea but the lines are kind of wrong, either a defect in the assembly of the video or just how they obtain each other's position, at least comparing it to the actual onboard videos. I think this one has more accurate lines:



They should try to use the system that MLB uses in their stadiums, from the top of the bleechers using radio waves they can detect the rotation of the ball thrown by the pitcher and lots of other stats, they can probably enrich the F1 tracks with radio sensors to be able to capture where each car is exactly and reconstruct their precise 3d position on track to use in these videos, would probably massively help stewards in decision making and we sure know they need all the help they can get.

dialtone
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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Rikhart wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 21:30
Why would they place the sprint race first, before qualy? I mean, isn't a race supposed to have precedence? Or just abandon this sprint travesti all together...
Nah you are wrong sorry. During quali you enter parc ferme rules, sprint and race need to be 2 separate events, the only way for that to be the case is to allow different setup for the main quali, so you need to do the sprint before it.

You may not like sprints, and that's fine, but last year sprint races have all been good and didn't take away from the race event. Before last year, with a single parc ferme, it was extremely pointless.

This is a good setup for the event in my view, so long as you appreciate the sprint event, which I now do.

Rikhart
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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dialtone wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 23:36
Rikhart wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 21:30
Why would they place the sprint race first, before qualy? I mean, isn't a race supposed to have precedence? Or just abandon this sprint travesti all together...
Nah you are wrong sorry. During quali you enter parc ferme rules, sprint and race need to be 2 separate events, the only way for that to be the case is to allow different setup for the main quali, so you need to do the sprint before it.

You may not like sprints, and that's fine, but last year sprint races have all been good and didn't take away from the race event. Before last year, with a single parc ferme, it was extremely pointless.

This is a good setup for the event in my view, so long as you appreciate the sprint event, which I now do.
Easily solvable, sprint events in one day, race events in another day...

dialtone
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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Rikhart wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 23:54
Easily solvable, sprint events in one day, race events in another day...
When do you put practice?

Rikhart
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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dialtone wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 23:59
Rikhart wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 23:54
Easily solvable, sprint events in one day, race events in another day...
When do you put practice?
Friday: 2 practice sessions.
Saturday: useless sprint day
Sunday: Main events.

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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Rikhart wrote:
22 Mar 2025, 00:23
dialtone wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 23:59
Rikhart wrote:
21 Mar 2025, 23:54
Easily solvable, sprint events in one day, race events in another day...
When do you put practice?
Friday: 2 practice sessions.
Saturday: useless sprint day
Sunday: Main events.
This would reduce the show. Teams having only 1 practice means they will not all nail the setup and won't have time for a full race sim. So you enter the sprint that some stuff isn't fully figured out. Doing 2 races next to one another like that is also fairly boring as they probably have the setup since it wouldn't be possible to police the parc ferme.

It would just be a much worse show, just don't do sprints in that case, it's a worse event than it was 2 years ago.

rijtuig
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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Masterclass.

evered7
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Re: 2025 Chinese Grand Prix [Shanghai] March 21-23

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Masterful driving. Lewis really delivered.

Leclerc should use every opportunity to learn from the master himself.

Great work by the team after the disastrous opening round.

Hope the rest of the weekend goes well too.

I really want Hamilton to win his 8th in Ferrari red colors.