Red Bull exceed fuel flow limit, Ricciardo DSQ at Australian GP

[Jef Patat]

Last warning. I see accusations of cheating yet nobody has even seen the motivation, which will be made public at the end of the week. Until then I definitely don't want anymore talk about cheating.

Call it what you want. They got disqualified because they had breached the regulations. They appealed and lost. The motivation doesn't change those facts. Did RB 'fill in word that we cannot use'? We will never know. The motivation will not tell if they did what they did intentionally to gain advantage. Unless RB tells their intention (which they won't) we will never know. Discussing 'fill in word that we cannot use' is pointless, even after the motivation.

[astracrazy]

Yes they cheated , not that hard like mercedes last year, but cheated

Mercedes didn't cheat. They took advantage of an FIA who over complicate rules and do not understand them themselves.

Red Bull broke a rule after being ask several times to remedy the situation during the GP. They had a chance and they chose not to take it. Dreadfully sorry for the innocent Ricciardo, but Red Bull could really expect no other outcome.

exactly, and if i remember correctly the FIA even got fined

so moving on, this is a completely different situation.

[Richard]

As a general note, all teams seek to stretch the rules to their advantage. They often cross the line and retreat after a quiet word from Charlie Whiting. Sometimes they don't retreat and it becomes a public matter. It's just like the classic maxim that if you don't go for an opportunity then you are no longer racing.

Emotive terms such as "cheating" and "fair" don't help the quality of the conversation, it just leads to emotive posts that distract us from the facts of the case.

[lebesset]

http://www.pitpass.com/51362/Official-R ... ion-upheld

not a great surprise

[Juzh]

http://www.pitpass.com/51362/Official-R ... ion-upheld

not a great surprise

little late to the party are we?

[Coulthard's Jaw]

'Cheating' isn't an emotive word, it's a factual word.

[Jef Patat]

'Cheating' isn't an emotive word, it's a factual word.

In this case of facts that are hard, if not impossible, to prove. Cheating is crossing the line intentionally. Intention is important (just think of the best know difference: manslaughter vs murder) but hard to prove. In all this discussion how can we judge the intention? IMHO we can't, and frankly, regarding the trial, it doesn't matter neither.

[dans79]

All this sensitivity over a word brings to mind a famous movie monologue between Tom Cruise & Jack Nicholson.

[ChrisM40]

I dont think RB 'cheated', but they were dishonest. Modifying the FIA sensor to the point that it became unreliable and then blaming the sensor is dishonest or at least disingenuous. Its akin to not liking something you have bought and then breaking it and claiming on your home contents insurance.

[deterherligt]

As far as i can see this link hasn't been posted here yet. It is the most detailed summary of the hearing i have found.

http://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/commen ... l_of_text/

I think is it kinda biased, and very much written as RB are guilty. However there are alot of interesting points in the text.

Mostly there are nothing in this wall of text that says tells FIA could have done anything else than uphold the stewards dicision. Actually i am suprised that they just upheld the verdict (unless there are more to come?)

[astracrazy]

I dont think RB 'cheated', but they were dishonest. Modifying the FIA sensor to the point that it became unreliable and then blaming the sensor is dishonest or at least disingenuous. Its akin to not liking something you have bought and then breaking it and claiming on your home contents insurance.

Dishonesty is to act without honesty. It is used to describe a lack of probity, cheating,[1] lying or being deliberately deceptive or a lack in integrity, knavishness, perfidiosity, corruption or treacherousness.

so they cheated then....

and your example would be a good example of cheating the insurance company.

Red Bull cheated and were found guilty so they got DQ'd. They believe they didnt but not its been proved they did. I don't know why the beat around the bush.....

[turbof1]

Alright, I asked it politely, but seems nobody even tries.

Thread closed for good.