2005 aero in Barcelona testing

dumrick · Post 25 Nov 2004, 12:45

So here are yesterday's times at Barcelona:

1. J.P. Montoya - McLaren Mercedes - 1'14"202 - 59 tours
2. R. Schumacher - Toyota - 1'14"618 - 67 tours
3. F. Massa - Sauber Petronas - 1'14"943 - 72 tours
4. C. Klien - Red Bull Cosworth - 1'15"148 - 100 tours
5. M. Webber - Williams BMW - 1'15"369 - 51 tours
6. M. Gené - Ferrari - 1'15"613 - 70 tours
7. L. Badoer - Ferrari - 1'15"649 - 102 tours
8. J. Trulli - Toyota - 1'15"745 - 50 tours
9. V. Liuzzi - Red Bull Cosworth - 1'15"933 - 60 tours
10. G. Fisichella - Renault - 1'16"108 - 29 tours
11. A. Pizzonia - Williams BMW - 1'16"242 - 16 tours
12. A. Wurz - McLaren Mercedes - 1'16"361 - 83 tours
13. J. Button - BAR Honda - 1'16"846 - 61 tours
14. F. Montagny - Renault - 1'17"228 - 69 tours
15. E. Bernoldi - BAR Honda - 1'19"977 - 33 tours

I've been looking at the photos to try to figure which of the teams had "2005" aero in their cars, and I think that both Ferrari and Red Bull (amazing, concerning their times!) had it. Some I'm not sure, but I am sure that Montoya drove a 2004 package and that the "Concept car 2005" BAR had 2004 aero. Did any of you spot anything more? Don't you think the times are too balanced, for cars with such different definitions?

Guest · Post 25 Nov 2004, 13:02

Pizzonia was also testing the car with aero modifications imposed for 2005

scarbs · Post 25 Nov 2004, 15:52

Ferrari and Jaguar have run 05 spec bodywork. I guess the others are focussing on driver familiarisation.
BAR have run both cars (liveried and concept car) with 05 aero, the giveaways are the big rear wing wnd plate, raised front wing endplates and cut-down squared-off diffuser.
BAR ran a new very deeply curved FW, while most other teams seem to have run an 04 wing

dumrick · Post 25 Nov 2004, 17:21

The Concept 05 BAR FW is very close to the ground in the centre of the spoon shape! I seriously doubt that it's compliant with 2005 regs...

The endplates seem the version that was used in China in the 006...

Compare with Red Bull's...

... and Ferrari's...

scarbs · Post 25 Nov 2004, 18:12

The middle 50cm span is still allowed to be at the old height, only the outer spans have been raised. Hence the BAR wing may not even be as low as it is allowed, but the steep height changes on the wing are detrimental to overall aero performance.
If the teams can regain enough rear downforce, the stepped wings as seen on the 2001 cars (Jordan, Sauber, Renault) may return for a brief while.

dumrick · Post 25 Nov 2004, 18:22

Ok, thank you, I thought that the outer and the middle section heights were raised all together.

I didn't read the regs and the Ferrari shape, that has a raised centre to avoid too steep height changes, has mislead me...

By the way, concerning the rear wing, from what I understood, we have endplates with the rear extremities in the same place as last year, but longer, because they start closer to the body of the car, as does the wing itself, right?

scarbs · Post 25 Nov 2004, 19:12

ont eh rear wing thats right...

the diffuser outer channels are lower and must have straight edges and no fences...

Micky · Post 26 Nov 2004, 00:41

Why don't they want steep height changes? Do they cause excessive drag or something?

Aradea · Post 26 Nov 2004, 20:04

Can anybody explain to me why BAR times are always at the bottom of the timesheet ?? I mean, they were runner up... and now they are 2-3 seconds slower than the top runner..
Does the new aero regulations really affect the performance ?

Stas · Post 26 Nov 2004, 20:14

Probably thier new engine can spin up to 20000+ rpm. And they dont have torque in the middle.

Guest · Post 27 Nov 2004, 07:06

Last I heard when Michael tested at Monza a while ago, with the 2005 spec aero, he lost around 3-4 seconds a lap and was quite unhappy with the changes. And this is Michael Schumacher we're talking about.

BAR drivers are probably trying to cope with the new aero and other changes (if any, I don't remember).

- West

Aradea · Post 27 Nov 2004, 21:45

Does that means that everyone will be at least 2-3 seconds slower than this year's time ?
What about the engine factor ? I heard that most of the teams will have an improvement on horsepower..

Scuderia-Russ · Post 28 Nov 2004, 15:55

Does anyone know how high the front wings are to be raised for the new aero package? The Ferrari in the pictures above has it's a country mile away from the track surface by the looks of it.

Reca · Post 28 Nov 2004, 18:54

BAR front wing, on both the liveried and the black car, is definitively the 2004 version.
A further pic from the Barcelona test :
http://www.f1racing.net/en/photolarge.p ... catID=1470
Suzuka 2004 :
http://www.f1total.com/bilder/show.php? ... &d=4&b=106
Ferrari :
http://www.f1racing.net/en/photolarge.p ... catID=1468

Also Red Bull is using 2004 aero, both front and rear.

West wrote: Last I heard when Michael tested at Monza a while ago, with the 2005 spec aero, he lost around 3-4 seconds a lap and was quite unhappy with the changes. And this is Michael Schumacher we're talking about.

It wasn’t at Monza, it was at Jerez. Ross Brawn commented, in Suzuka, that MS was really shocked to be suddenly 2-3 seconds slower with same tyres and engine just because of the raised wing, and it was raised by just 3 cm, not 5. I don’t know if they used also the “new” diffuser, from Brawn’s words it doesn’t look like, maybe they did reduce also the rear wing angle in that occasion but I’m not sure.

Scuderia-Russ wrote: Does anyone know how high the front wings are to be raised for the new aero package? The Ferrari in the pictures above has it's a country mile away from the track surface by the looks of it.

3.7.1 All bodywork situated forward of a point lying 330mm behind the front wheel centre line, and more than 250mm from the centre line of the car, must be no less than 150mm and no more than 350mm above the reference plane.
3.7.2 All bodywork situated forward of the front wheel centre line must be no less than 50mm above the
reference plane.

As a reference, the wheel radius is max 330 mm (dry tyres) and max 335 mm (wet tyres)

Aradea · Post 28 Nov 2004, 21:08

Well, if BAR were using the 2004 front wing (or the height of it...), how come they were 2-3 seconds slower ?
My guess is they did use the 2004 FW, but with the 2005 regs height.. If I'm not mistaken, before the end of the season BAR tested using the 2005 regs. Enrique Bernoldi is the one who's driving the car & he is a couple of seconds slower than the rest of the drivers.

I hope that with a few more testing, we can see the true pace of the 2005 racers... (I mean, by how much slower they become)