Model Scale - Windtunnels and Windshear

[banibhusan]

That's what. They would have to change the complete rear end to test their new sidepod and exhaust configuration if they want to have a proper understanding of what they are trying achieve. Because the diffuser, suspension, radiator layout etc. all are different to what was there in the F10. I hope someone provides a bit more info in this area.

As Bhallg said, it's legal and teams can do it, but in this case Ferrari is stretching the limit to an extreme and that might not sit too well with other teams. Especially if Ferrari manages to get everything right and starts dominating the races after that.

At this point though, it's all speculations!! Off-topic but curious to know, have there ever been so many speculations concerning a single team in past??

[TheRMVR]

Don't they just run the F10 to get some correlation between on-track data and CFD? Put the damn thing in the windtunnel, on track and correlate the sh*t out of that stuff. Unless, as they say, they have no correlation problems whatsoever.

[bhall]

Don't they just run the F10 to get some correlation between on-track data and CFD? Put the damn thing in the windtunnel, on track and correlate the sh*t out of that stuff. Unless, as they say, they have no correlation problems whatsoever.

Good point. Using the F10 to calibrate their tools seems much more feasible (and effective).

[reichsmarshal24]

In the Australian Grand Prix pre-race show, there was a segment where martin brundle drove the F10 at Fiorano. From the nose up until the rear area, the car appeared to look like the earliest iteration of the F10(Pre-Valencia, less sophisticated FW, no F-duct). However, as you go to the rear, the periscope exhaust of the early F10 version cannot be seen. I don't know if they ran the EBD but the onboard shots had no crackling audio of the exhaust blown diffuser.

Here are the pics:

[zoro_f1]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvW6lmolxyE[/youtube]

[timbo]

If Ferrari has produced an F2012-B with push-rod front in six weeks, it will surely be tested, Montezuma will find a way.

No matter if it's a new or modified tub, crash-tested or not, he's not going to watch Alonso fighting it out with Saubers
and Toro Rossos every second weekend for the rest of the year if he can help it. I'm certain MrE will see it the same way.

The number of testing days as well as wind-tunnel and CFD testing is a subject of sporting regulation.
There is no way xpensive, Montezemolo, or even God himself can get away with such breach of sporting regulations without protest of the rival teams and serious sanctions from the FIA.

[luicchi]

because it's not clear that testing a two-year-old car would benefit a current design.

That's why I'm a little worried. Imagine seeing a stronger Ferrari in Shanghai, what would other teams say? "Of course they are, they can test while we cannot" or something similar.

Sorry but i´m not. I think if the other teams complain about something about "Of course they are, they can test while we cannot" that have a resolution, which is let all make tests.This is the unique sport where the pilot goes to a race "game" without training and evolution his skills and the skills of what is on. Just let all teams test

[Crucial_Xtreme]

The number of testing days as well as wind-tunnel and CFD testing is a subject of sporting regulation.
There is no way xpensive, Montezemolo, or even God himself can get away with such breach of sporting regulations without protest of the rival teams and serious sanctions from the FIA.

Just because they test doesn't make it illegal. They can straight line, full scale wind tunnel and/or scaled wind tunnel test. The only way to run at Fiorano though it to designate it a filming day. How many filming day's they're allowed I'm not sure, but they've already had one. Xpensive is wrong about testing a push rod setup, but not wrong about getting something new on the car tested.

Edit: below: agreed.

[timbo]

The number of testing days as well as wind-tunnel and CFD testing is a subject of sporting regulation.
There is no way xpensive, Montezemolo, or even God himself can get away with such breach of sporting regulations without protest of the rival teams and serious sanctions from the FIA.

Just because they test doesn't make it illegal. They can straight line, full scale wind tunnel and/or scaled wind tunnel test. The only way to run at Fiorano though it to designate it a filming day. How many filming day's they're allowed I'm not sure, but they've already had one. Xpensive is wrong about testing a push rod setup, but not wrong about getting something new on the car tested.

What I'm saying is that the procedures are clearly defined. There's no way around it. They can have a full day instead of the Mugello test, for example, but a full-blown private test that is breaching the allocations is impossible.

[banibhusan]

Well teams are currently allowed to test in a 60% scale WT. Scarbs just reported on twitter that they allowed to trade 4 days of 60% scale WT testing with 1 day of full scale WT testing, either straightline or windshear. Something that Lotus is planning to do.

[elFranZ]

because it's not clear that testing a two-year-old car would benefit a current design.

That's why I'm a little worried. Imagine seeing a stronger Ferrari in Shanghai, what would other teams say? "Of course they are, they can test while we cannot" or something similar.

Sorry but i´m not. I think if the other teams complain about something about "Of course they are, they can test while we cannot" that have a resolution, which is let all make tests.This is the unique sport where the pilot goes to a race "game" without training and evolution his skills and the skills of what is on. Just let all teams test

I perfectly agree, there was no sense in banning private testing.
That doesn't stop me to think someone will shout and cry for this, even if no rule was breached. And that's just my fear, hope noone gets nervous for this...

[hardingfv32]

Well teams are currently allowed to test in a 60% scale WT. Scarbs just reported on twitter that they allowed to trade 4 days of 60% scale WT testing with 1 day of full scale WT testing, either straightline or windshear. Something that Lotus is planning to do.

There are no WTs that test at 100% scale with the same accuracy as a 60% model WT. They would never make such a trade.

Brian

[hardingfv32]

You guys are aware that Ferrari has a division that sells and maintains old F1 cars for private owners. This service includes transportation and full track service. Most of the cars being sold at this time only function under the guidance of Ferrari personal. Why would the sounds not be from one of these cars?

Brian

[shelly]

brian, read better what babibhusan wrote.

He cites:
- straightline real car testing, which is much more accuate than wt
-the Windshear 100% facility - more accurate than a 60 %wt

teams often do straightline testing, and sometimes (or often? they do not give much publicity to that) pay visit to Windshear in USA, which is an awesome facility.

Problem with 100% testing is that pieces are more expensive and long to build, hence it is used just for assessment of finalized parts

I agree with you about ferrari historical car department - not unusual for their clients to test in fiorano

[banibhusan]

Well teams are currently allowed to test in a 60% scale WT. Scarbs just reported on twitter that they allowed to trade 4 days of 60% scale WT testing with 1 day of full scale WT testing, either straightline or windshear. Something that Lotus is planning to do.

There are no WTs that test at 100% scale with the same accuracy as a 60% model WT. They would never make such a trade.

Brian

http://www.lotusf1team.com/Shear-Power- ... turns.html

A small reference for you. I dunno how far it's accurate in terms of statistical figures, but it certainly is worth a shot as Lotus have previously used it and they found it beneficial.

EDIT: An excerpt from the above link

“The wind shear test is an aerodynamic simulation carried out at a facility in North Carolina, USA. Here we use a full scale wind tunnel, which allows us to replicate airflow over a real car to see how it behaves. It’s a very useful, controlled way of analysing the car in its current configuration to compare data with our 60% wind tunnel and CFD facility. It also provides a good opportunity to try new upgrades on the car and predict how they will perform.”

“Preparing the car for this test is quite a big task. Firstly, we have to fit hydraulic front and rear suspension which automatically alters ride height, removing the need to constantly make manual adjustments. This is a new system and will have to be pre-fitted. The car will also have a special gearbox installed which has a dummy diff allowing us to spin the wheels freely. Finally, it will be covered in electronic sensors to pick up all the data so overall it’s a lot of work, and a significant transformation from the standard car.”