2014 LMP Reg

[RacingManiac]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100351
http://www.dailysportscar.com/viewArtic ... 1D1A430D20

They have announced the new engine reg, with different configuration limits by fuel usage instead of restrictor. I believe mentioned elsewhere the displacement limit will go up also. While hybrids are given more capability to use more energy. The P1 cars are now limited to coupes, and that they will feature adjustable front element for aero balance adjustment between circuits as opposed to the current practice of altering sets of bodywork. Minimum weight will go down and the car will be narrower with larger windscreen to enhance visibility.

Sounds like we are back to Group C....which is probably pretty good..

[Pandamasque]

Sounds like a step in the right direction. I've heard that the engine capacity will be limited to 5 or 5.5l according different sources. Some suggest that there will be no capacity limit at all for the works cars. But with the weight being down to 830-850kg 6L engines or larger would be irrelevant anyway.

[TzeiTzei]

I find the new regs quite interesting. They're getting rid of stupid restrictors and hopefully this will stop the row between diesel and petrol engines. Imo the fuel limits are a perfect way to regulate the engines in class like this. No need for detailed technical regulations: "here's the amount of fuel you're allowed to use, make the most of it."

I don't quite like the part, where manufacturer teams are only allowed to run hybrids. They should have kept the non-hybrid option aswell, with perhaps tighter fuel limits than for privateers. But as it's pretty clear that the auto industry is getting more and more into hybrids, these new regs do seem like a logical step forward. But i do wonder if there's any road relevancy in these LMP hybrid systems? Are flywheels and super capasitors something you could have someday in your road car?

The fact that privateers are allowed to use more fuel and a lighter car is also good. The gaps are nowadays quite big. The LMP2 regs didn't change, did they?

[Holm86]

This is how engine regulations should be.

Just hope they remove this hybrid system can only be activatet 7 places on the circuit.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

No need for detailed technical regulations: "here's the amount of fuel you're allowed to use, make the most of it."

I agree.
I will be starting a new thread asking why the need for such stringent regulations in LMP1 and F1.

Artificially limiting its air intake with restrictors, yet allowing turbos(at a mandated maximum pressure). What's the point?

Give them 1000 litres of fuel and tell them to race for 24 hours. We will see some real innovation this way.

[ESPImperium]

No need for detailed technical regulations: "here's the amount of fuel you're allowed to use, make the most of it."

I agree.
I will be starting a new thread asking why the need for such stringent regulations in LMP1 and F1.

Artificially limiting its air intake with restrictors, yet allowing turbos(at a mandated maximum pressure). What's the point?

Give them 1000 litres of fuel and tell them to race for 24 hours. We will see some real innovation this way.

Pretty much my argument.

Lets free up the regs on downforce and open up the engine regs, then mandate that each car has say 2500 litres reducing by 5% every year untill it reaches 1500 then it reduces by 10% till it reaches a target of 1000l of a 24 hour race, LMS should have 50L tanks, whitch gives them arround 50 pit stops, less time in the pits is a bigger advantage over being in the pits.

As for F1, it should be a target of 100Kg for the race, and if a car needs a top up, it can do for a 10Kg DTM style shoulder tank fill up, however fuel stops must be done on their own, no tyre stops at the same time.

[skgoa]

If we give them a certain amount of fuel for the whole race, they are going to try and run as slowly as the competition will let them. Especially towards the end of the race, which would make it incredibly boring. Like this year's Monaco GP. IMHO giving them a certain amount per lap ensures that they do push every lap. The guys with the best efficiency get the most speed out of a given amount of chemical energy.

But as it's pretty clear that the auto industry is getting more and more into hybrids, these new regs do seem like a logical step forward. But i do wonder if there's any road relevancy in these LMP hybrid systems? Are flywheels and super capasitors something you could have someday in your road car?

Well, Li batteries aren't the final answer. (We don't even have enough Lithium on the planet.) So IMHO every cent spent on research in that direction can pay off. And even if racing hybrids is only helping to convince people that hybrids don't need to be slow, that's already worth it. I would like a Garage 56 entry to be an entirely electric car at some point in the next few years, too.

The fact that privateers are allowed to use more fuel and a lighter car is also good. The gaps are nowadays quite big. The LMP2 regs didn't change, did they?

P2 is fine, IMHO. Almost every car in the class was capable of getting the class win. (Well, at least in terms of raw speed.)

[bhall]

If we give them a certain amount of fuel for the whole race, they are going to try and run as slowly as the competition will let them.

[...]

An allocation of fuel on a per lap basis is absolutely no different than doing likewise for an entire race; it's essentially just a different way to phrase it. The innovation here is the way in which the ACO has determined them. Different technologies have different allocations, and the manufacturers have tons of leeway to develop powerplants within whatever technology/allocation they choose to pursue.

It's the sheer number of possibilities - especially with KERS in the equation - that will serve to ensure closely contested races.

(Incidentally, I would love to see this in F1.)

[TzeiTzei]

Well, Li batteries aren't the final answer. (We don't even have enough Lithium on the planet.) So IMHO every cent spent on research in that direction can pay off. And even if racing hybrids is only helping to convince people that hybrids don't need to be slow, that's already worth it. I would like a Garage 56 entry to be an entirely electric car at some point in the next few years, too.

Next year the garage 56 entry will be powered by fuel cells. http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/news-event ... ck-in-2013

I think that's great and in general i feel that racing is a good way to showcase and develop new technologies. Somewhere here was the interview of Ulrich Baretzky, where he said that even the automotive industry doesn't really know what's gonna happen in the future, so they are sort of trying everything. Be it flywheels, capasitors, fuel cells, whatever, i find it very exciting to see these new technologies tried at Le Mans. See how much publicity the Deltawing got? (Even though i found the consept rather useless).

P2 is fine, IMHO. Almost every car in the class was capable of getting the class win. (Well, at least in terms of raw speed.)

Yeah there's no need to change the P2 atm. The competition is tight and there was a good amount of entries. Next year diesels will be allowed and Mazda just introduced their 2,2 litre oilburner. It's interesting to see how much power they can get from that, because aren't the petrol engines around 500bhp? That's gonna be difficult for Mazda to achive, but then again torque and fuel consumption might be on their side.

[TzeiTzei]

Placing a limit on fuel per lap is absolutely no different than doing likewise for an entire race; it's essentially just a different way to phrase it. The innovation here is the way in which the ACO will allocate fuel limits. Different technologies will be given different allocations, and the manufacturers will have tons of leeway to develop powerplants within whatever technology/limit they choose to pursue.

I think one of the reasons for a limit on fuel/lap is to have some control of the max power of the engines and top speeds. Especially in qualifying where with unlimited fuel and otherwise quite free engine regs we might see someone try something stupid. But that's just a thought.

[bhall]

I'm sorry. I made an error in my explanation.

Fuel isn't limited per lap; it's just allocated on a per lap basis. In other words, a car with X technology will be given Y amount of fuel per lap, and a car with Z technology will be given T amount of fuel per lap. Each technology's unique allocation figure is then multiplied by the total number of laps for any given race, and the product of that equation is the total fuel limit for the race for that technology. Manufacturers can exploit that limit however they see fit. They could use it all on the first lap if they so desired.

Make sense?

[TzeiTzei]

I'm sorry. I made an error in my explanation.

Fuel isn't limited per lap; it's just allocated on a per lap basis. In other words, a car with X technology will be given Y amount of fuel per lap, and a car with Z technology will be given T amount of fuel per lap. Each technology's unique allocation figure is then multiplied by the total number of laps for any given race, and the product of that equation is the total fuel limit for the race for that technology. Manufacturers can exploit that limit however they see fit. They could use it all on the first lap if they so desired.

Make sense?

Didn't realise it worked like that. Thanks! =D>

[gato azul]

An allocation of fuel on a per lap basis is absolutely no different than doing likewise for an entire race; it's essentially just a different way to phrase it.

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Each technology's unique allocation figure is then multiplied by the total number of laps for any given race, and the product of that equation is the total fuel limit for the race for that technology. .

Make sense?

That would be a bit difficult to implement, seeing that for a 24hr race (time based) the distance traveled (No. of laps) is not known beforehand, so there can't be a total fuel amount given for the race based on a lap consumption.

You can limit tank size, which in combination with your actual consumption will determine how long you can run (no of laps) in each stint, so you can make the compromise between running fast (higher consumption) but stopping more often or running a bit slower, but trying to save yourself one or two stops during the duration of an 24hr race.

The "problem" (for lack of a better word) with this is, that in qualifying or in a sprint to the flap, you could still ramp up engine power, so the ACO does not really has a handle on car speed this way, at least not on a lap basis, and it cannot balance between different concepts (diesel vs. petrol) in terms of power used on a lap basis (Qualifying etc.).
With an fuel limit on an "per lap" basis, they can achieve both.

[RacingManiac]

IIRC there was an Racecar Engineering article on this, its a flow restricted fitted to the fuel line from the tank which will restrict the amount of fuel suppled to the engine(Free RCE issue on Le Mans in downloadable on their site, on page 65 there is an article on such device).

Group C in the old days gives you a total amount of fuel to use in the race, this would not I guess give you a total, but you can't use more than certain amount per lap.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

With an fuel limit on an "per lap" basis, they can achieve both.

So is this limit set in stone?
For instance, can the Toyota follow the Audi round for say, 20 laps using the slipstream to save a couple kgs fuel. And then, for a couple of laps move into maximum attack mode and burn this excess fuel going over the mandated per lap requirement, but still within the remit over a stint...if you follow?
Or can you strictly only use a set amount for every single lap you make.

If the case is the former, it opens a rather large can of worms...