Different quality cars from same manufacturer

[dragvorl]

We had a discussion on another forum concerning vehicle quality for different markets. So, the general idea is: say BMW or another manufacturer basically has two classes of quality, higher and lower of course. So the higher quality vehicles are sold in developed countries (i.e. Germany, Switzerland, UK, USA, etc.), and the lower class goes to Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa and so on. Say they make the VW Golf in Belgium and Hungary (just a hypothesis) and the cars from Hungary are made for the second class markets in second class quality, the ones in Belgium are making cars for the higher quality markets. The car prices are roughly speaking the same, let's say. It was even mentioned that the manufacturers even have first and second class cars from the same factory and assembly line and for the same model of course. Just to make it clear, by quality I mean lower quality interior plastics, lower quality leather, lower quality fabric for the interior...it was mentioned that say lower quality starter motors which were known to have some issues (not durable enough, not issues like setting the car on fire) and subsequently stopped being put on the higher quality cars are deliberately put on new cars for the second class market (let's say they are "good enough")...those starters would have higher possibility of breaking down, but they would still be good enough not to make too many fixes under warranty and thus additional expenses to the factory. And by this I don't mean that cars for different climates or different road roughness have more powerful ACs or different shocks (say different AC or radiator for Emirati vs Swedish markets). The story was even more fueled when a member who has a 320d E90 LCI had a few defect which were or are going to be covered by warranty, and one of the issues is going to include an engine removal, the mileage is around 10ish thousand km. So, what's your opinion?

[marcush.]

In result you may be right but that´s not happening on purpose.
Just think about thermal validation . The biggest portion of your validation and vehicle testing especially endurance will be compromised by the actual environmental situation you are in when racking up the miles.
So in effect ,a german engineer testing in central europe will not experience the situation as a north american resident in NewYork ever ,but the car will be sold there .
Think about Dubai or oimjakon in Russia and you may get an idea that some areas are not really covered by endurance testing ,even though the oem will spend limeted times in those areas of extreme climate.
The same goes for right everything you happen to exposed to .
I rememeber very well trvelling with my Mini to Great Britain and my surprise just how well the car handled and felt on British roads compared to germany where you always had the feeling the car was designed to test the quality of tooth inlays ..

[dragvorl]

No, no, i didn't mean that. I mentioned that in my first post. I meant assembling cars from lower quality components for some markets for higher profit purposes.

[Jersey Tom]

Different markets / demographics have varying product requirements. You produce and market an appropriate platform for each demographic.

In some markets there's a premium on quality and extensive feature lists at an expense of price. In other, emerging markets there is a premium on cost and availability at the expense of features or whatever.

That's pretty typical. Do some product lines have different specs for different export markets? Maybe. But remember, variety is the enemy of manufacturing. It's in the manufacturers best interest to use the same components as broadly as possible to simplify logistics and be more cost effective, rather than use a different "Widget X" in a half dozen units.

[dragvorl]

Yes, sure they want to unify as many components as possible. And yes, some manufacturers for instance have different springs/dampers for some market where the roads are much rougher than in other countries.

[marcush.]

I actually work in car development and have actually written specifications for some components working at an OEM and also have had access to specifications of other manufacturers.
What i can confirm is :cars for certain markets have different specifications -be it for specific local conditions (law ,environment whatever) but i have yet to see the slightest hint of someone producing to lesser standards for certain markets..In effect you develop for the worst case you have to cover with 100% safety.this will of course result in a product that is a bit overengineered for some cases but as JT pointed out it´s not worth diversifying too much .You need consistency ...So the part that does not meet the spec does not leave the factory .It may well be it´s a mediocre product ,yes -but each and every one is just the same and will perform as intended.(ideally)

[netoperek]

My experience with process automation tells me it's true.
Yes - there is a distincion in putting parts of different quality on different markets and probably for different models. But usually it is with the same parts, meant to be made to the same specs. Problem is - production process isn't always perfect and occasionally some products don't pass the entire quality control process, and therefore end up being put in cheaper versions. It's true not only in automotive industry.
Another yes - sometimes same parts are being made with different materials, for various reasons. It may happen that producing higher quality parts is simply cheaper, due to the availability of materials in local market or technological solutions of nearby/cheapest suppliers.
One example mayb. I've made an installation of robotized welding cell in a factory working for a known, old, american company Parts used came from 2 supplyiers - one asian, other european. Problem with those asian parts was that they rarely passed the entire quality check...Most of them was used anyway, just in slightly modified production process and/or for different end-customer, i.e. other assembly plant.
Sorry, can't give much more details, but the bottomline is - i've seen such practices and frankly I can't say I was much surprised - in the end it's just another way of cutting costs.

EDIT: marcush's post made me realise i haven't clarified, that not passing "entire quality check", never meant those parts were below tolerance specified in desing (I've never seen complete specifications for those parts, so can't tell...). They were just more off the specs than the other, better sort

[marcush.]

In my world there is no 100% check ever.
The parts are processed and have to meet the standards by design and that´s about it .Raw materials are meticulously checked and of course every single item is traceable to the raw materials but there is no ways each and every part faces a 100%check before it is mounted to a car.
So a A or B ware is absolutely impossible....you could maybe use electronics from the line which do not comply to the standards single out and move them to other projects if that were possible..but then how do you know just how many sub spec parts you will produce? Got some second supply electronic bits that may or may not be a potential risk...yopu have to inform the customer ...so same partnumber different quality level -never tolerated by an OEM.Second supply of assembly with lower quality ..happens all the time but is tried to be a avoided...Producing less quality for 3rd world ..i have no experience but I´d guess it may be normal for Chevy producing for the Euro market and asia ..

[DOA]

I would say that with the scale of the car industry it is entirely feasable that global products are built to differing cosmetic quality standards with localised component sourcing being used to seperate the supply lines but that safety critical items would not be designed to different standards. Sure, inferior quality coatings/finishes may be used in some instances, but this would probably only be sanctioned in cases where the integrity of the component would not be compromised over its nominal lifespan due to two reasons, reputation (potentially a complete killer with the more emergent markets) and litigation.
I would say though that it is far more normal to tailor the product to particular levels of customer expectation with premium products being aimed at the "developed" world and sub-premium products being aimed at "developing" markets. I would hazard a guess that in 10-20 years time, this will all change as we in the "developed" world are so busy feeding investment into the "developing" markets at the moment that they will overtake ourselves and become the primary markets for premium products. Just look at Bentley and other automotives moves into China recently where the Chinese have been keeping a large number of companies afloat where previously they would have really struggled in what we "developed" companies consider to be a slump in the market. Its definately an interesting time to be in the automotive sector......

[Greg Locock]

Bit of an impossible question to answer, are you talking about vehicles that are nominally identical models being sent to to two different markets from the same assembly plant? If they have the same internal designation, no, almost certainly not. If they are released as different models (that is they have unique BOMs) then yes, the parts could and probably would be different.

" Say they make the VW Golf in Belgium and Hungary (just a hypothesis) and the cars from Hungary are made for the second class markets in second class quality, the ones in Belgium are making cars for the higher quality markets."

Yes, that seems like a reasonable idea, but of course it doesn't have to happen that way - it is not unknown for CKD operations to produce better quality vehicles than the parent factory, for example. Equally cars built for one market may need to be substantially reworked for squeaks and rattles, fit and finish, etc, before they can be sold elsewhere even if they are legal in the second market.

[dragvorl]

Bit of an impossible question to answer, are you talking about vehicles that are nominally identical models being sent to to two different markets from the same assembly plant? If they have the same internal designation, no, almost certainly not. If they are released as different models (that is they have unique BOMs) then yes, the parts could and probably would be different.

To put it simple: if a car is sold in two different markets (for example Germany and Bulgaria), and presumably the cars don't have to be built different due to road quality, weather conditions, safety, etc. The car, for example, is a same specification, 1.6tdi Golf Mk6, same equipment for both markets. Now, they can put i.e. an alternator or ac compressor which barely passed QC, or they can put one which easily passed QC, and they know the lower quality compressor will run ok, but for sure not as good as the higher quality one, but will still meet expectations. Now the question is, if they can go away with it, do they intentionally put lower quality parts on identical spec cars in one market, and sell it for the same price as in another market, maybe with a higher profit margin? Assembly location can be same or different. I hope I explained it well. 

[Smokes]

I have worked in car manufacturing the trend right now is to standardize the factories to the platform they make. Bigger cost savings come from volume and rather than changing specification components I.e two tools rather than one tool, tool change over and so on affect the cost much more.

Component quality only changes on the interior of cars now so an, Audi a3 has a high end interior more sound deadening a VW golf has a medium spec interior slightly less sound deadening and Seat leon has a low end interior. They share the same power trains,sub frames electronics.

The Car base spec usually is based on the market requirements. E.g a base spec passat in the USA usually has a lot a stuff deleted that you would get in a European car to get the base price down to what USA customers would pay. Ride suspension would be specced to the market they being sold in.

Quality is still dependent on the factory workforce and management style which varies country by country and plant by plant. This something every manufacture struggles with as there is a lot of extern factors that play their part in this unions pay production volumes, politics.

[Greg Locock]

If both components met the same spec then they would probably fit the cheaper one to all the cars. If they met the spec that was deemed suitable for one market but not the other, then they'd fit the cheaper one for that market.

I think you are attempting to create an idea that doesn't hold water, basically.

[cheapracer]

I see manufacturers only offering older models and older drivetrains in current shapes as being for a lesser markets otherwise what I have seen is they are the same car regardless of which market.

It's market perception as well, Hyundai are crappy cheap cars in Australia (or were) yet rival Toyota, Honda, Buick etc in China.

[Greg Locock]

Hyundai's image (and cars) has improved a lot lately, although given the i30 I drove in the UK last year, and the i20 I drove in oz this year, they still have a long way to go if you are talking about dynamcis and so on.


The Chinese market has quite different requirements to Australia, and again quite different to India. That's one reason that I think the original question is bogus, shipping the exact same model to vastly different markets is statistically unlikely.