Lap Times slower than GP2?

[gcdugas]

I am not against the new rules but I think they were a little bit too ambitious. I fear that the lap times are going to be slower than the GP2 cars by a few seconds. With the fuel capacity going from 160Kg to just 100Kg it would take a miracle to get the lap times back where they were.

Additionally there is the new "Formula E" series. I think ERS is great and finally the technical challenges are relevant to manufacturers that make road cars.

Turbos? Eh, maybe, maybe not. For a road car owner it is just more complexity and more parts to break. Packaging even on road cars makes routine maintenance more time consuming and expensive. As a customer I prefer naturally aspirated for these reasons. Plus I like a crisply responsive throttle. But that is just a personal preference and I welcome alternative efforts to get the turbo spinning at low rpm to eliminate lag. Intercoolers also seem like an unnecessary invitation for expensive bills on road cars also.

But the big disappointment I think will be the lap times. Slower than GP2 (which is a spec racer series!) is intolerable but it will be a reality. Thoughts?

[Blanchimont]

Please wait until the last testing day at Jerez/Bahrain or even until after qualifying in Melbourne before you judge the speed of the 2014 cars!

[langwadt]

Please wait until the last testing day at Jerez/Bahrain or even until after qualifying in Melbourne before you judge the speed of the 2014 cars!

that, until they are driven in anger we have no idea how fast they are

[gcdugas]

So you think they are going to suddenly find 9 or 10 seconds? GP2 is about 3.5 seconds ahead of last years cars which is 5.5 seconds ahead of today's testing. Even if they get 4.5 seconds out of "anger" it will still be slower. I think the fuel rate is killing them. And the cars were built around 100Kg fuel capacity so cranking up the boost and flow is not an option unless they dramatically shorten the races.

[Just_a_fan]

You do understand that the first test sessions are about making sure the various bits work together, don't you? This is about data gathering and reliability testing, not performance testing, after a huge rules change.

Wait until the first race before you start wailing about lap times being too slow...

[motobaleno]

very easy to solve: reduce donwnforce and/or power to GP2

[beelsebob]

So you think they are going to suddenly find 9 or 10 seconds? GP2 is about 3.5 seconds ahead of last years cars which is 5.5 seconds ahead of today's testing. Even if they get 4.5 seconds out of "anger" it will still be slower. I think the fuel rate is killing them. And the cars were built around 100Kg fuel capacity so cranking up the boost and flow is not an option unless they dramatically shorten the races.

1. GP2 is not faster than last year's cars, it's about 3.5 seconds *slower* than them.
2. Yes, I genuinely do think they can suddenly find 9 or 10 seconds. They are pootling around checking that the engines work, checking that the cooling works, and doing constant speed tests.

No one has gone out and pushed even close to the limit yet.

[motobaleno]

No one has gone out and pushed even close to the limit yet.

I'm not so sure about that. no one pushed to the limit I agree, but I don't know if they are so far from it...
of course I refer to the present limit.....we all know that thing evolve

[sAx]

... GP2 is about 3.5 seconds ahead of last years cars ...

Really? Where did you get that from??

[rscsr]

...
1. GP2 is not faster than last year's cars, it's about 3.5 seconds *slower* than them.
....

No one has gone out and pushed even close to the limit yet.

The Pole Lap from Abu Dhabi of the F1 car was about 10 seconds faster than the Pole in the GP2 car. And this means, even the slowest F1 car was about 5 seconds faster.

[gcdugas]

So you think they are going to suddenly find 9 or 10 seconds? GP2 is about 3.5 seconds ahead of last years cars which is 5.5 seconds ahead of today's testing. Even if they get 4.5 seconds out of "anger" it will still be slower. I think the fuel rate is killing them. And the cars were built around 100Kg fuel capacity so cranking up the boost and flow is not an option unless they dramatically shorten the races.

1. GP2 is not faster than last year's cars, it's about 3.5 seconds *slower* than them.
2. Yes, I genuinely do think they can suddenly find 9 or 10 seconds. They are pootling around checking that the engines work, checking that the cooling works, and doing constant speed tests.

No one has gone out and pushed even close to the limit yet.

Yes that is what I meant. 2013 F1 is base line
2013 GP2 baseline +3.5
2014 F1 **at present** base line + 9
Diff to 2013 GP2 is there fore 5.5 sec (which is the number I used)
To gain the full 9+/- sec needed to reach the 2013 F1 cars seems WAY out of reach.

I do NOT think they can find this much time because there is only so much energy/speed to be harvested from 100Kg of fuel in 2014 vs 160 Kg of fuel in 2013
We shall see but I am concerned.

[Just_a_fan]

I do NOT think they can find this much time because there is only so much energy/speed to be harvested from 100Kg of fuel in 2014 vs 160 Kg of fuel in 2013
We shall see but I am concerned.

True, but turbo engines are more efficient and the new KERS thingy is much more effective (in terms of energy harvested and then reused). Lots of the wasted energy from last year will be reused by the new energy recovery systems. In effect they have more fuel than you think because they get to use more of the available energy.

[gcdugas]

I do NOT think they can find this much time because there is only so much energy/speed to be harvested from 100Kg of fuel in 2014 vs 160 Kg of fuel in 2013
We shall see but I am concerned.

True, but turbo engines are more efficient and the new KERS thingy is much more effective (in terms of energy harvested and then reused). Lots of the wasted energy from last year will be reused by the new energy recovery systems. In effect they have more fuel than you think because they get to use more of the available energy.

100/160=62.5 you think they are going to find 37.5% more energy?

[munudeges]

It's certainly a cause for concern. They're going to have to find a lot of time.

[gcdugas]

I just found this... I am noy alone in my concerns http://www.givemesport.com/407636-formu ... s-engineer