Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
The other night I was invited to a corporate event just outside Munich that was run on all electric karts. It was interesting.
Firstly it was insanely quiet. Secondly the karts were actually quite quick, by indoor karting standards anyway, and acted as if they had a centripetal clutch. The race marshalls had full remote control over the motor performance, and could actually dial the power of individual karts up and down to penalize teams, as well as having an emergency red flag function that just locked all karts. Here's a video of the eery silence:
I have a regular KZ2 6 speed shifter garaged at my local track. While emptying the water for winter this past weekend, I was wondering when we will see serious electric karting taking over the more purist kart racing events.
Many companies seem to have pushed electric into the corporate sector, but hardcore kartsport seems to be stubbornly petrol-/2-stroke dominated, despite a couple of smaller events like ERDF and G-Zero http://www.gzeroracing.ca/.
A few years ago the excuse was that the batteries didn't last long enough but I'm not sure if that is true any more. So what is the holdup?
PS I have mounted a LiFePo4 battery pack on my starter and reduced weight by about 800g over lead acid. It works great.
This signature is encrypted to avoid complaints, but it makes me laugh out loud:-
16S75 13E7K 41C53 7CT23 14O5O 67R32 76175 90B67 L4L42 41O63 72W56 98M10 52E87
I think soon. We have already seen electrics starting to place highly in Formula Student / FSAE. I would not be surprised if the power density get's there soon.
SidSidney wrote:The other night I was invited to a corporate event just outside Munich that was run on all electric karts. It was interesting.
Firstly it was insanely quiet. Secondly the karts were actually quite quick, by indoor karting standards anyway, and acted as if they had a centripetal clutch. The race marshalls had full remote control over the motor performance, and could actually dial the power of individual karts up and down to penalize teams, as well as having an emergency red flag function that just locked all karts. Here's a video of the eery silence:
I have a regular KZ2 6 speed shifter garaged at my local track. While emptying the water for winter this past weekend, I was wondering when we will see serious electric karting taking over the more purist kart racing events.
Many companies seem to have pushed electric into the corporate sector, but hardcore kartsport seems to be stubbornly petrol-/2-stroke dominated, despite a couple of smaller events like ERDF and G-Zero http://www.gzeroracing.ca/.
A few years ago the excuse was that the batteries didn't last long enough but I'm not sure if that is true any more. So what is the holdup?
PS I have mounted a LiFePo4 battery pack on my starter and reduced weight by about 800g over lead acid. It works great.
IMO Karts already need a mandatory rollcage or at least some front and rear rollover bars and racing seat and harness.
Karts got so fast they are extremely dangerous. It ain't uncommon to hear horror stories of drivers rushed to the hospital in really bad shape at most local kart racetracks. Some say that while less prone to crash than motorcycles, when they do crash they do it hard.
Much more driver protection is needed for an electric car as they would be heavier.
There is a new place just north of Atlanta Georgia that has an indoor karting track with all electric karts. Supposedly they are fast, for indoor karts, going ~40mph. Havent tried them yet, but will soon as my wife had a great time karting on one of our rare date nights without our son.
Batteries are.. basically overweight lumps of crap..
Powerful/snappishly responsive 2-strokes are fun..
Maybe a live pick-up floor grid or overhead dodgem car/tram-type power system could offer like fun?
"Well, we knocked the bastard off!"
Ed Hilary on being 1st to top Mt Everest,
(& 1st to do a surface traverse across Antarctica,
in good Kiwi style - riding a Massey Ferguson farm
tractor - with a few extemporised mod's to hack the task).
SidSidney wrote:A few years ago the excuse was that the batteries didn't last long enough but I'm not sure if that is true any more. So what is the holdup?
As seen on several successful powered electric karts its absolutely possible to race equally fast and long with an electric kart. And with such small batteries a pitstop with a batteriechange would be easy I guess. But a change from petrol to electric would be not easy to manage in a racing class. An electric powertrain is still pretty complex and expensive in comparison to a 2 stroke engine. So why should "they" change? Karting is all about simple cheap technic. And lets not forget it all has to work in a competition environment including prevention of cheating.
I have competed a couple of years in an electric model racing class. So I´m pretty a fan of electric powertrains but I would wonder if we see a wide electric revolution in karting in the next years.
SidSidney wrote:The other night I was invited to a corporate event just outside Munich that was run on all electric karts. It was interesting.
Firstly it was insanely quiet. Secondly the karts were actually quite quick, by indoor karting standards anyway, and acted as if they had a centripetal clutch. The race marshalls had full remote control over the motor performance, and could actually dial the power of individual karts up and down to penalize teams, as well as having an emergency red flag function that just locked all karts. Here's a video of the eery silence:
I have a regular KZ2 6 speed shifter garaged at my local track. While emptying the water for winter this past weekend, I was wondering when we will see serious electric karting taking over the more purist kart racing events.
Many companies seem to have pushed electric into the corporate sector, but hardcore kartsport seems to be stubbornly petrol-/2-stroke dominated, despite a couple of smaller events like ERDF and G-Zero http://www.gzeroracing.ca/.
A few years ago the excuse was that the batteries didn't last long enough but I'm not sure if that is true any more. So what is the holdup?
PS I have mounted a LiFePo4 battery pack on my starter and reduced weight by about 800g over lead acid. It works great.
IMO Karts already need a mandatory rollcage or at least some front and rear rollover bars and racing seat and harness.
Karts got so fast they are extremely dangerous. It ain't uncommon to hear horror stories of drivers rushed to the hospital in really bad shape at most local kart racetracks. Some say that while less prone to crash than motorcycles, when they do crash they do it hard.
Much more driver protection is needed for an electric car as they would be heavier.
Why not small electric cars instead of karts?
Why not just Formula SAE electric? They seem to be doing good.
Electric karts are becoming more and more popular in the UK as being 'Green' and 'Eco friendly' is becoming such a huge thing. Not only that but petrol karts give off toxic fumes, not a problem outside but inside, this can cause problems without proper ventilation. The problem with the electric karts is cost and let's face it, it's an expensive sport as it is.
tuj wrote:I think soon. We have already seen electrics starting to place highly in Formula Student / FSAE. I would not be surprised if the power density get's there soon.
Much of that is probably do with electric FSAE cars not being power restricted. The (20mm?) restrictor hampers the engine performance and top petrol teams are probably running no more than 80-100hp, where as the top electric cars are pushing over 200.
Section B of my paper placed before the FIA World Council in Paris in 2010 which became Formula E
B Electric Vehicle Carbon Neutral Motor Sport Project
Concept Paper Outline
1. Main Objectives
1.1 To inaugurate two electric kart and at least one electric car circuit racing series.
1.2 To create the first official Carbon Neutral Motor Sport.
(a) The battery packs of each vehicle designed to be easily and safely replaced
at the race circuit, to ensure that full power is made available and equal for all competing vehicles for practice, qualifying and racing.
(b) The battery packs to be re-charged at, or away from the circuit by an appropriate
Carbon Friendly Energy Source.
(c) This source to be accredited by the FIA governing body.
1.3 The proposed racing will comprise.
(a) Junior kart series for the youngest entrants into the sport.
(b) Senior kart series for the older more experienced.
(c) Open wheel single seat car series approximating to the leading UK ‘junior’
Conventional formulae, (Ford, Forward or First). Control tyres, no slicks or wings, mechanical grip only.
1.4 The power and drive train components in each series for the vehicles.
(a) Will be identical and ideally from one source.
(b) All components to be specified in detail and regulated by the FIA.
(SEE APPENDIX 1 – TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS)
2. Development
2.1 In order to ensure safety, conformity and an absolutely level playing field.
In the first instance all battery packs will be the sole responsibility of the MSA.
National MSAs will appoint a suitably qualified Electric Racing Vehicle
‘Energy Manager'. To implement the Carbon Neutral Energy policy and take
sole responsibility for the specification, original supply, maintenance and to
ensure the availability of an adequate number of suitable, fully charged battery
packs at each event.
2.2 Management and operating costs in respect to the provision of batteries, to be
recovered from the entrant by a ‘Fuel Saving’ element incorporated in the
Entry Fees.
2.3 To encourage the full participation of National MSAs and to bring these important and innovative events to the attention of potential competitors, commercial partners and the media.
The FIA to kick-start the scheme in the first instance by underwriting the cost of
the following.
(a) To commission the build of one example of each of the proposed categories
of racing vehicle.
(b) To commission a test and development programme, designed to ensure a
sufficient number of race ready production vehicles can be made available to
(i) Meet anticipated customer demand.
(ii) Exhibit at the 2011 Autosport International Racing Car Show.
(iii) Form satisfactory grids for the start of the 2011 season.
(c) Join with the organisers to approach both Government and NGAs, especially the Alternate Energy Industry, in order to identify the sources and maximise the use of any funding available to encourage the initiation of such schemes.
(d) Source the capital investment necessary to create an Energy Consortium
to formulate and implement a policy to meet the Alternate Energy needs of these
Electric Vehicle Racing Formulae within a National and International context.
2.4 In the first instance, the re-charging of the battery packs will of necessity be by
conventional means.
However, the declared intention from the outset is to create the first 'official'
Carbon Neutral motor sport series'.
Therefore within a specified time frame every circuit wishing to host rounds
of the series’ will commit to the following.
(a) Confirm the series electricity supply to be approved Carbon friendly.
(b) Provide the means of re-charging the battery packs, from an alternative energy
source on circuit, either by wind turbine, solar panels, carbon credits or other
Alternate Energy source, within a time frame agreed by the governing body.
2.5 All three series’ to be piloted simultaneously by the RAC MSA at club and
then National level in the UK, with the declared intention for all three series’ to
become International as early as practical.
2.6 The Regulations to be structured in such a way as to allow all National MSAs to
introduce one, two, or all three formulae into their own National Formula.
2.7 Upon satisfactory completion of the test and development programme of each vehicle, by special dispensation of the National MSA, the prototype vehicles to take part in appropriate formula events during the 2010 season but without racing for position, points or prizes.
The FIA to sanction and support International series' as early as possible.
2.8 The electric kart and car series’ herein defined, to support, as early as is practicable, significant motor sport championship events, such as
MSA Superkarts, Formula Three, Formula Renault, TOCA, and ultimately
GP2 / Formula 1 on a Global platform.
3. Schedule for Implementation
3.1 All prototypes to commence Test and Development programmes as soon as possible.
(a) Karts no later than 30th April 2010, Car 31st June 2010.
(b) A minimum of ten (10) race-ready customer cars and twenty (20) of each Kart
chassis to be completed and ready for delivery by the 31st December 2010.
(c) Introduction and participation in UK motor sport for the start of the 2011 season
