build an o-w chassis question

[roninho]

Dear all,

I'd like to have some input on an early stage project.

The projcet would be that students as part of their university study would design and build a formula car chassis. The chassi would obviously be a level below F1 but should be similar to Indycar and GP2 in terms of power, safety and speed.

The students would design and build the car, excluding engine, gearbox and electronics (which would be bought 'on the market').
For 'simplicity' and safety the base of the car is an approved safety cell (an early 2000s champcar one to be precise).

What would you feel would be the main technical challenges and production challenges?
And what would be a ballpark figure for what this would costs in materials and production (excluding labour, since the students would do this as part of their study).

Any input would be appreciated.

Best Ron

[Greg Locock]

Why would you do that rather than FSAE?

[roninho]

You sound like my gf, Always answering with a question Lol Just kidding.

Understandable question, but reason would be because we may get the funds/donation/sponsorship via a racing enthousiast who has no interest in FSAE.

So if anyone has some advice and thoughts about costs and challenges, please share your thoughts.

[Greg Locock]

These days you don't just bolt a series of bits together and see what falls out the bottom. A successful design is a cohesive unit, where each part influences and is influenced by, each other part. As such, you'd need to decide what the goal is, and which rules you will be following. That'll make many of your decisions for you, but will also constrain the design is a fairly artificial manner.

So perhaps your project boils down to how much would it cost to build a replica of the most successful car meeting these regs, and what are the design challenges?

So, a GP2 engine is 600 hp. That'll be a pretty penny off the shelf. Actually I think I'll leave it there.

[Facts Only]

Are you clear what you mean by chassis?

If you have a Safety Cell/Tub from an Indycar which provides the front end and an exsiting engine/gearbox combo which provides the rear end you already have a 'chassis' so you are left to designing some bodywork and some suspension. But the Indy tub will already have the front end pick-ups and the gearbox will have the rear mounts so really you will be designing some uprights and wings and joining the dots?

Are you planning to use it? Or is it just a design excercise?

[Greg Locock]

Well that was interesting enough to post - you might get a 700 hp ex IRL engine for only $20000, which strikes me as a bargain.
http://www.race-cars.com/engsales/chevy ... 5091ss.htm

As to costs for suspension+tires+wings, you could probably do a lousy job for 15k and a decent (but not competitive) job for 50k, plus labor.

First of course you need a BoM.

[roninho]

Are you clear what you mean by chassis?

If you have a Safety Cell/Tub from an Indycar which provides the front end and an exsiting engine/gearbox combo which provides the rear end you already have a 'chassis' so you are left to designing some bodywork and some suspension. But the Indy tub will already have the front end pick-ups and the gearbox will have the rear mounts so really you will be designing some uprights and wings and joining the dots?

Are you planning to use it? Or is it just a design excercise?

Thank you for your reply. It is a safety cell that will be replicated based on indycar specifications (actually champcar) by a company that has build one before. Since it will be ground up we can change the engine mounts and other bolt on parts, and the students can work based on a cad. Since we can change the engine mounts we are not tied to the engine/gearbox combos the roller was originally designed for (although obviously we still have some limits on what to pick). It would not be just a design excersise, but actually build to use it. But obviously not to be ''competitive'', just race it on track/in ''hobby'' events.

[Facts Only]

Are you clear what you mean by chassis?

If you have a Safety Cell/Tub from an Indycar which provides the front end and an exsiting engine/gearbox combo which provides the rear end you already have a 'chassis' so you are left to designing some bodywork and some suspension. But the Indy tub will already have the front end pick-ups and the gearbox will have the rear mounts so really you will be designing some uprights and wings and joining the dots?

Are you planning to use it? Or is it just a design excercise?

Thank you for your reply. It is a safety cell that will be replicated based on indycar specifications (actually champcar) by a company that has build one before. Since it will be ground up we can change the engine mounts and other bolt on parts, and the students can work based on a cad. Since we can change the engine mounts we are not tied to the engine/gearbox combos the roller was originally designed for (although obviously we still have some limits on what to pick). It would not be just a design excersise, but actually build to use it. But obviously not to be ''competitive'', just race it on track/in ''hobby'' events.

O.K then my next question is going to be where are you going to run it? I think you might find difficulty in two areas:
1) Getting an MSA Logbook on a homebuilt carbon tub (it has been done but could be difficult)
2) Actually finding something to enter, hillclimbing may be your only option and you'll need a proper race licence to run something like that apart from that proper test days may be your only hope.

Are you in the UK? (I realised that I have just assumed you are)

[Greg Locock]

I'm intrigued to learn how student drivers get on with 700 hp.

[autogyro]

I'm intrigued to learn how student drivers get on with 700 hp.

So am I

[andylaurence]

How hard can it be to get a carbon tub homologated? Force, Empire and OMS have done it and all three are tiny companies of just one man. I don't think the poster has said the students will drive, so it sounds to me like someone's got a few quid and wants to build something with F1 performance for much less. There are open races and hundreds of sprints and hillclimbs each year to compete in.