Fans for downforce

[Tom]

On the subject of fans, if the Brabham was so magnificent and was glued to the track, why didn't everyone have one? Instead they banned it.

Ground effects I can understand are dangerouse if the car gets at all airbourne, but things like Active Suspension and the fan idea are technological masterpieces. Ban TC and race refuelling (why bother with V8s?), reintroduce Active Suspension, Fans and 4s pit stops.

[dumrick]

Fans were used for gound effect and have exactly the same risks. And, in my opinion, passive ground effect is a lot smarter than fans, because it relies solely on the displacement of the vehicle in the airflow and doesn't "steal" any power from the engine.
The use of fans in the Brabham BT49 was due to the fact that Brabham was the only team who had a boxer 12 engine (the Alfa Romeo) that, because of that configuration, didn't allow free space in the sidepods to get as much ground effect as their competition, that had the Cosworth V8's. Furthermore, the engine was more powerful then the Cossies, which contributed for teh fact that the power stolen by the fan wasn't such a big deal...

[Ciro Pabón]

Thanks, Dumrick, well explained, I did not know it.

If you want to become a fan of active suspension and fan-cars, let me explain that FISA and FOCA battled in the 80's for more turbo power (FISA's best technology) and downforce (Bernie's FOCA equalizer for their underpowered Cosworths). This made the races to reach high levels of G-forces.

I always heard rumours about Patrick Depallier death at Hockenheim in 1980 being caused by black out because of high G-forces. Then, you had Gilles Villeneuve and his teammate (I do not remember his name right now) dead in their Ferrari's. This brought some sense into the FOCA approach of maximum downforce.

So this is the short answer: driver's auxiliaries do not only take away excitement from this sport, they too can take away the lives of some drivers.

Late edit: the name of Villeneuve's teammate was Didier Pironi.

Later edit: the rules include a section on how to establish when a material ceases to be of a certain class because it has alloys or inclusions. No time to re-read it now, but probably can help you to clarify if a carbon rim makes the wheel non-metallic.

Anyway, for what I remember of the rules on alloys, they are restrictive, no permissive. So, I agree with Manchild. I fail to see how a carbon rim can be included in an all-metallic rim.

[manchild]

On the subject of fans, if the Brabham was so magnificent and was glued to the track, why didn't everyone have one? Instead they banned it.

Indeed, but those were times when FIA was impartial and honnest.

[dumrick]

Then, you had Gilles Villeneuve and his teammate (I do not remember his name right now) dead in their Ferrari's.
Late edit: the name of Villeneuve's teammate was Didier Pironi.

Just to set the records straight: Pironi didn't die in a Ferrari. His accident at the Hockenheim's qualifying in 1982 broke his two legs and saw him through 34 surgeries in the following years to try to get fit again for F1. He was trying to get a competitive team to get back when he died in 1987, in an Off-Shore boat race accident, if I recall correctly.

And what a magnificent talent Pironi was... as a small child, I remember his battles with Villeneuve (my idol), they were superb...

[Tom]

Ciro Pabón wrote:
Then, you had Gilles Villeneuve and his teammate (I do not remember his name right now) dead in their Ferrari's.
Late edit: the name of Villeneuve's teammate was Didier Pironi.

Just to set the records straight: Pironi didn't die in a Ferrari. His accident at the Hockenheim's qualifying in 1982 broke his two legs and saw him through 34 surgeries in the following years to try to get fit again for F1. He was trying to get a competitive team to get back when he died in 1987, in an Off-Shore boat race accident, if I recall correctly.

You recall corectly.

Pironi's last lap overtake of Villenurve at Tosa hairpin, Imola, led to the two never talking again. Many believe that Villenure's fatal accident at Zolder, the next meet in after Imola, was due to him trying too hard to beat Pironi's qualifying time. Incidently many believe Pironi's crash in which he shattered both anckls at Hockenheim in the wet was due to him thinking of Villenurve.

Pironi did enter powerboat racing and sadly died along with his co-pilot off the Isles of White on August 23 1987

Didier Pironi won 3 races, achieved 13 podiums, and scored a total of 101 championship points. He also secured 4 pole positions.

[Steven]

The Brabham car was so effective it won its first race with 34 seconds ahead of any other car. It was indeed banned by Ecclestone and the Formula One Constructors Association (FOCA)



I think it was a good decision to ban fans like these. In term of a collision, such a fan with high speed could well be a very dangerous projectile

ps: If anyone want to write something about this car, I'll add it to the "all cars ever" page

[manchild]

..and it could mince modern CF noses like old bread

[Tom]

They would find a way of protecting it better and making a gaurd that doesn't cause loss of power but stops stones being thrown up.

What effect would it have on slip streaming?

[Mikey_s]

my recollection of the issue is that other drivers complained that they were bombarded by 'projectiles' from the back of the car when they got close - it needn't just be stones - just look at all the marbles and other rubbish you get on the track...

[NickT]

Mikey you are correct there were a lot of complaints from other drivers.

One note of interest though, the fan was primarly designed for cooling the engine by pulling air from under the car and then through the radiators. I remember seeing an interview with the designer afterwards where he sighted that a damaged skirt upset the airflow and caused an over heating problem with the car. So the downforce created was secondry, yeah right

[scarbs]

Forix summary kind of sums up the facts.
http://www.forix.com/8w/fancar.html

It was indeed banned by Ecclestone and the Formula One Constructors Association (FOCA

)
Erm..? Bernie Ecclestone was the Brabham boss at the time and head of FOCA, it was FISA (later to become the FIA) the governing body who banned it.

I recall it had to have a sprag clutch on the fan drive shaft to prevent the fan coming to a dead halt shoud the engien stop while on track.

Bernie still owns and occaisionally runs the BT46B.

[Tom]

I think the complaints about debris being picked up were the other drivers attempts to get it banned.

The tyres will bring up as much dirt and no one complains about them.